olympos sp-b nozzle question

No its not a secret at all. The MP-200C head and internals do fit the 100SB. I have one from Frank Artale-Olympos that I purchased from him on eBay. It gets down every bit as fine as the SP-B I just recieved and finer than the Iwata Eclipse SBS. I'll hit the Olympos site but the only parts that need replacing are;

-fluid nozzle to .18
-needle to .18
-front spray cap
-main fluid nozzle cap
-200C back body
-internal needle guide
-internal spring guide/hold screw in section (has not he's around the circumference).

Nothing more needs to be replaced.
Regards,
Chris the cabbie
"No matter where you go, there you are ":thumbsup:

yeah, ok that list would be the parts I would remove from the hp200b, as described in my earlier post...
 
Those parts plus the cost of a olympos sb or hp-sb aren't that much less than a micron and you still don't have the flow characteristics of the micron head.

A micron nozzle does fit the hp-sb and olympos sb I will check the other parts tomorrow if anyone is interested.
 
The video is Franks, and he was trying hard to bring Olympos back into the US. I am pretty sure whatever deal they were working on fell apart, and parts dried up on this side of the pond... There are many of his posts in this section if you look back further.

From my perspective in this post, all the parts I am talking about are Olympos - the Hp100sb, and hp200b are Olympos models that are sill available from Japan...

The video above is confusing if you don't know what Frank is alluding to. I found out from him that the Olympos HP-62 back fluid nozzle cap has a slightly smaller hole that limits the airflow enough that it changes how the brush performs. I have a couple of them on my brushes , including the 100SB Micron.

Regards,
Chris the cabbie
"No matter where you go, there you are ":thumbsup:
 
What's a back fluid nozzle cap? I thought the hp-62 has a traditional nozzle that threads into the body like all iwatas minus the micron and a nozzle cap?
 
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What's a back fluid nozzle cap? I thought the hp-62 has a traditional nozzle that threads into the body like all iwatas minus the micron and a nozzle cap?

I reached out to Frank but am uncertain he will answer as he seems to have distanced himself from the forum after the Olympos back dealing that squeezed him out. As for your question, there are two caps on the end of the airbrush and I am speaking of the back most one and the back one threads into the body. Not to be confused with the front cap most painters remove to spray fine lines, clear enough now? Frank mentioned it was from the -62 not me.
Regards,
Chris the cabbie
"No matter where you go, there you are "
 
No its not a secret at all.

The info may be freely traded in closed convos between friends, but it's not been openly publicly available until now, as far as I've seen (I had been looking: it's been driving me nuts since I first saw that vid a while ago). The secrecy may not have been intentional, but it was a de-facto secret.

Frank deliberately avoided saying what parts were needed in his video because he was hyping sales of his modified brushes. Nothing against him selling said brushes or advertising them (I was not a part of the kerfuffle that saw him leave, and do not have strong opinions about it or him) , but if the parts can be had through Olympos, then avoiding telling people is IMO poor form. He was trying to keep it a soft, temporary trade secret. Better practice would be to negotiate distribution so he can provide them at better cost than buying the parts and doing the mod one's self. In any case, it's moot now, since he's no longer selling anyway.

It wasn't your intention to be secretive, but it's not a complex mod, either to do or describe, so there'd be no reason to mention it but avoid describing it. This sorta made it look like you were wanting to keep the info from being public, while still being willing to pass it to select friends.

In any case, I'm glad it was a misunderstanding, and I'm very grateful for the info! Up until now, I though Frank was likely the only source for this info, otherwise I would've made a thread asking about it here.
 
The info may be freely traded in closed convos between friends, but it's not been openly publicly available until now, as far as I've seen (I had been looking: it's been driving me nuts since I first saw that vid a while ago). The secrecy may not have been intentional, but it was a de-facto secret.

Frank deliberately avoided saying what parts were needed in his video because he was hyping sales of his modified brushes. Nothing against him selling said brushes or advertising them (I was not a part of the kerfuffle that saw him leave, and do not have strong opinions about it or him) , but if the parts can be had through Olympos, then avoiding telling people is IMO poor form. He was trying to keep it a soft, temporary trade secret. Better practice would be to negotiate distribution so he can provide them at better cost than buying the parts and doing the mod one's self. In any case, it's moot now, since he's no longer selling anyway.

It wasn't your intention to be secretive, but it's not a complex mod, either to do or describe, so there'd be no reason to mention it but avoid describing it. This sorta made it look like you were wanting to keep the info from being public, while still being willing to pass it to select friends.

In any case, I'm glad it was a misunderstanding, and I'm very grateful for the info! Up until now, I though Frank was likely the only source for this info, otherwise I would've made a thread asking about it here.

Nessus,

I hear you and wish I could confirm what Frank said as I know he stated he was trying to secure supply of the needed back caps as I have 2 of them. I even asked Frank if it would work on the Eclipse SBS, but it doesn't.
Regards,
Chris the cabbie
"No matter where you go, there you are "
 
What's a back fluid nozzle cap? I thought the hp-62 has a traditional nozzle that threads into the body like all iwatas minus the micron and a nozzle cap?

From the description, I believe he means the fluid nozzle cap (part "B" on the Iwata Micron part diagram) . The part that goes over the nozzle proper and controls airflow past the nozzle tip.
 
-fluid nozzle to .18
-needle to .18
-front spray cap
-main fluid nozzle cap
-200C back body
-internal needle guide
-internal spring guide/hold screw in section (has not he's around the circumference).

Nothing more needs to be replaced.

Are all these from the MP-200?
 
I watched the video posted above in this thread, and I'm kinda curious about something. He claims that the brush "sprays better" because the aircap "lowers the pressure". I'd like to see a comparison using the original cap but at a lower pressure. But then again, there wouldn't be the pressure drop so Idk if that would make a difference or not.
 
I watched the video posted above in this thread, and I'm kinda curious about something. He claims that the brush "sprays better" because the aircap "lowers the pressure". I'd like to see a comparison using the original cap but at a lower pressure. But then again, there wouldn't be the pressure drop so Idk if that would make a difference or not.

I think what he's saying is that the space/gap between the cap nozzle hole and the nozzle is smaller, which would cause the air flow velocity over the tip to be higher at a given pressure. Theoretically this would allow better atomization at lower pressures.
 
Changing the air nozzles makes a difference, yes it does if the holes of both nozzles are slightly different in size. One works better for fine detail work. BUT, that doesn't make HP series work like Microns as the air nozzles of these series are totally different, they provide different dynamics of air flow.
 
Those parts plus the cost of a olympos sb or hp-sb aren't that much less than a micron and you still don't have the flow characteristics of the micron head.

A micron nozzle does fit the hp-sb and olympos sb I will check the other parts tomorrow if anyone is interested.

Actually, looking through the Olympus catalog, it looks like you could do the conversion for around $150 (HP-200SB airbrush included). You could throw in a K-33 needle and still not be halfway to a Micron MSRP.

Main issue is I'm not %100 sure all the parts are actually available. Specifically the internal needle and spring guides. I'm not 100% sure what parts those are, but I'm guessing they're what Iwata calls the needle chucking guide and spring adjuster (parts 7 and 9 on the Micron part diagram). Closest thing I an find on the Olympos website is "Lever push metal", but that sounds like the trigger lever (Iwata CM part#15). These parts would be essential in order to use the Micron (or MP-200) needle, which in turn may be essential to using the Micron/MP-200 nozzle.
 
I think what he's saying is that the space/gap between the cap nozzle hole and the nozzle is smaller, which would cause the air flow velocity over the tip to be higher at a given pressure. Theoretically this would allow better atomization at lower pressures.
If I remember correctly, there is a similar difference between my other airbrushes and my Infinity- Without changing the regulator I get that "softer" airflow out of the Infinity, which does seem to atomize better and produce finer lines.
To me, this proves that airbrush designers are rocket scientists and have an amazing understanding of fluid dynamics. I'm starting to smell smoke from my ears so I am gonna stop now :)
 
my k33 needle does not work well with an Olympos .18 nozzle. The angle of taper is completely different, and the needle barely protrudes from an Olympos nozzle... I did not see any benefit in performance when I tried it in any of my Olympos brushes.

I already have an Olympos HP200, which uses the same needle, nozzle, chucking guide, chuck, chuck nut, auxiliary level , needle spring, and spring retainer as a Micron. The brush is quite nice, and sprays some very fine detail. Having said that - is is not a Micron, and because of the differences in air flow within the head itself, I would find it hard to call it one.
 
Not sure how you figured roughly $150, just the brush, needle and nozzle cost over $175 plus the cost when it hits customs. Or just get a mp200-c for $200 and have an actual micron.

I really believe its more than a needle/nozzle combo that makes the micron much better, its the head assembly. The sp series has a different front end then normal iwata/olypmos brushes and thats why it sprays much better then the rest and is somewhat comparably to a micron.

I don't see a hp-200 model only a hp-100

talking about the needle taper, Ive been testing out different needle tapers and needle material looking for a sweet spot when I have nothing to do at work.
Is the K33 needle the same diameter and have the same taper as the original micron needle?
Ive noticed my olympos hp-100sb has a much sharper needle than my iwata micron or my friends iwata hp-100sb, I'm going to measure the taper this week and see if its a different taper or just machined to a sharper point.
 
my k33 needle does not work well with an Olympos .18 nozzle. The angle of taper is completely different, and the needle barely protrudes from an Olympos nozzle... I did not see any benefit in performance when I tried it in any of my Olympos brushes.

I already have an Olympos HP200, which uses the same needle, nozzle, chucking guide, chuck, chuck nut, auxiliary level , needle spring, and spring retainer as a Micron. The brush is quite nice, and sprays some very fine detail. Having said that - is is not a Micron, and because of the differences in air flow within the head itself, I would find it hard to call it one.

Well, the idea would be to use an Iwata CM nozzle in conjunction with the K-33 needle, rather than the Olympos nozzle. No idea how well that would work, though.

Good to know the internals and needle shaft diameter are cross-compatible though. Do the Iwata side cups also fit the Olympos SB?

Not sure how you figured roughly $150, just the brush, needle and nozzle cost over $175 plus the cost when it hits customs. Or just get a mp200-c for $200 and have an actual micron.

I'm not that interested in an MP-200C, as it's a top-feed. IF Olympos had a side feed in that line, you're right: that would be the way to go. The point of this exercise is to see if a CM-SB can be roughly approached for less. It's okay if the concept is inherently limited by the head airflow dynamics. Doesn't actually have to fully match a CM-SB's performance, just has to have a comparatively favorable performance/cost ratio. If one can get 3/4 to a CM-SB for half the cost, or even just beat an HP-SB, that's a win. Note that whenever I mention the"HP-SB", I am not referring to the HP-SBS.

If what I was after was ANY Micron at the lowest possible cost, I'd do a DaveG-style conversion on a $20 Chinese knockoff with an Olympus MP-200 head assembly and needle (cheaper than the Iwata equivalents). I specifically want the shorter front that comes with a side feed (the knock-offs come in SF, but they have long fronts 'cause they use the same body template as the top feed versions).

Also being able to upgrade an already good brush into a near-Micron by buying parts would allow one to distribute the total cost over time. I can't do that with a CM-SB.

HP-100SB: 10800Y
HP-100 .18 needle: 2376Y
HP-100 .18 nozzle: 3500Y
MP-62 nozzle cap: 2376Y

If DaveG is correct, and the needle shaft diameter is the same as the Micron, then nothing aft of the nozzle would need to be changed. I did not include the cost of an air cap, as I always take those off when airbrushing anyway. I only use them to protect the needle tip when the brush is not in use, so if the original HP-200 cap doesn't fit on the new nozzle cap, a nub of vinyl tubing will work just as well.

Minimum total: 19052Y, or $173.55

So I did goof on my original estimate. Still comes out to around 1/3 the price of a CM-SB, and around $75 less than an HB-SB. Again: this doesn't have to completely match a Micron in performance. It just has to get "close enough" (in a side-feed) at a lower price point.

If going for the K-33: ~$285 minimum (K-33 needle + Iwata CM-SB nozzle in place of the Olympus parts above, unsure about best nozzle cap). At that price point, I'd concede a stock MP-200C is the better buy, even though I really prefer a side feed.

The big uncertianty is exactly how close or far this would be to an actual Micron. People warn that it's not a Micron because the head internal airflow is different, and I believe you, but I'm not clear on how big the difference is. If this only gets a slightly better HP-SB equivalent, then I'd just stick with my SOTAR-SF. If it's actually significantly closer to a Micron than an HP-SB (if not quite exactly there), then it's maybe worth trying.

... But also the linchpin that would make this entirely moot would be if the MP-200C has a front (trigger to tip measurement) comparable to the HP-100SB. If those are the same or within just a couple mm, then the entire of the above has no purpose (for me) regardless of how it sprays. The MP-200C would be better in every other way, so if that way is equal, there goes the premise.
 
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I'm either completely lost or looking at the wrong stuff.
If you buy a olympos 100-SB why would you buy another HP needle and nozzle? I've never seen a .18 needle on the olympos website that says HP only the mp micron series and the SP series?
 
For experimentation I can order a mp62 or SP nozzle cap and put my micron parts on my olympos 100SB with the mp62 or sp nozzle cap and see what the difference is.

I will also mic up the diameter of the original 100-sb needle to the .18 micron needle to see if the shanks are the same size.
 
I'm either completely lost or looking at the wrong stuff.
If you buy a olympos 100-SB why would you buy another HP needle and nozzle? I've never seen a .18 needle on the olympos website that says HP only the mp micron series and the SP series?

On double checking, that's my mistake (again). I kept having to go back and forth while comparing and collating stuff, and got mixed up. In order to get a .18 needle/nozzle, it would indeed have to be a SP or MP set. Which would raise the BOM cost as the nozzles are more expensive (needles are same cost), so revised minimum:

HP-100SB: 10800Y
MP-200A or B .18 needle: 2376Y
MP-200A or B .18 nozzle: 5800Y
HP-62 nozzle cap: 2376Y

Total 21352Y or $194.72

Note that I also typo'd in my previous post and wrote "MP-62 nozzle cap", when the correct one is "HP-62".

Actually, better to just post links:
HP-100SB
MP-200A or B .18 needle
MP-200A or B .18 nozzle
HP-62 nozzle cap


For experimentation I can order a mp62 or SP nozzle cap and put my micron parts on my olympos 100SB with the mp62 or sp nozzle cap and see what the difference is.

I will also mic up the diameter of the original 100-sb needle to the .18 micron needle to see if the shanks are the same size.

I would love to know how this works out!
 
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