a good starting setup

[MajorMagnuM]

Hi there all forum members. This is my first post. I wanted my first to be different,but the complexity of getting started has kept turning me round. I mean to say the field of airbrushes and compressors is vast with a multitude of options.
I thought, therefore, to ask the following as your answers may very well expedite the issue for me.
Rather than ask what sort of airbrush I need, I though I would approach this from a different angle, that of listing what sort of projects I would like to attempt over the next few years, and what guns / brushes and relevant compressor will see me through those types of projects.
AS context, I would like to be able to use both enamels and acrylics.
1) laying excellent base coats of primer on metal and plastic objects size up to 120 x 120 x 120 volume.
2) Be able to lay down and finish to a high standard a variety of paints on those primed surface.
3) Ditto above, but for objects increasing in size to . Ie 500 x 500 x 500mm
4) ditto above but for a car panel, to enable me to affect a small touch up to respraying the whole panel.

So far, as ii understand it, I will need different guns with different needle sizes to be able to accomplish these things. The guns you recommend should specify the air compressor for me.

I’m sure there is a lot I have not considered, but i'm posting out of frustration as would like to start making some little progress!
Thanks for reading and I hope you can help me hit the ground running!!

 

[Mr.Micron]

Well first off this is where an introduction would have really came in handy being I have not ideal where on this planet you live.
So I am not sure if that 120 is in inches or MM 120mm is only about 4 inches and 500mm is about 19inches. neither of which are big by any standard.
yet if it is 120 inches that is huge ,
But before picking a spray gun or airbrush look at what the paint MFG says the paint need to be sprayed through for best results.
I use mainly HOK on the urethane side so all the spray guns I have are set up to what they recommend as far as nozzle/needle size .
Airbrushing is different due to you can reduce the paint to get the flow you need .
as you can see there is a lot of factors on picking equipment.
Painting metal goes sealer , primer ,base ,Clear , art work , clear
paint plastic goes Adhesion promoter , primer (sometimes not needed) , base , clear , art work , clear.
at least that is the way I do it , That way if the art work gets damage I am not having to take it all the way back to the bare surface just until I hit the clear.

 

[MajorMagnuM]

Ah thanks for asking for further clarity. I was using metric measurements. 120 millimeters.
Thankyou also for the tip about looking at what a paint manufacturer would recommend. Does this mean i am going to end up using a different airbrush for each different manufacturer paint i choose, or are the requirements generally similar?
To be clearer, i would like to know what nozzle size would be efficient for =each size project mentioned.

 

[Mr.Micron]

On airbrush it should not make a difference as long as the water based paint are made for the airbrush such as Createx brand Wicked or Illustraion line, E'tac, Com-Art, AutoAir , I have ran all this through a .18 nozzle set up as well as House Of Kolor AKA HOK. On airbrushes the Iwata Eclipse CS with the .35 set is a work horse of an airbrush can you can with practice get some killer detail out of them.
as far as a detail fine line airbrush with .23 or smaller nozzle size that is up to what you pockets will allow , Iwata Microns , H&S Infinity (you can also get the 2 in 1 model so you get a all around larger nozzle and a .20 fine nozzle), Olympus , Badger Krome (also has inter-changeable nozzles and needles)
Only on the spray guns do you want to see what the paint makers recommend, Most can be use throughout different paint brands such as PPG, SEM , HOK , Napa.
My Clear/Candy spray gun has a 1.3 nozzle set up , where my primer gun is 1.7 nozzle and my base gun is 1.2 or 1.5 set up depending on what I am painting .
Just look for the tech data/users guide and it should give you that information. They will look something like this
http://www.coastairbrush.com/S2_Solid_Bases_TDS.pdf
as far as the projects you are looking at I would suggest a mini spray gun just due to the smaller area.
Mine are more for Cars, Trucks and Tractors.
On small clear jobs I have a mini spray gun with a 1.2 set up works good for me.

 

[MajorMagnuM]

OK this is great info. I had previously identified the Badger Kroma as a versatile tool. Can i assume that would be good for projects up to 120mm cubed? At this stage im not looking to add fine detail. I just want to develop enough good technique to consistently lay down flat areas of colour.
would i be looking at something like the Iwata RG2 or 3 for my largest stated projects?
You seem to have the shape of what i want to do. Can you recommend what the max cfm and other spec compressor i might need to drive these guns/ brushes. There are many here on the second hand market. So far i understand that i can regulate the pressure coming out of any compressor down to the correct psi for smaller brushes. I also understand tank size is important factor in how long i can spray. is there anything else i should consider when trying to drive a mini air gun?
thanks alot for your time, things are getting clearer already.

MM

 

[MajorMagnuM]

ps thanks for that heads up on the spec sheet. I dont understand every bit of it, but can see why you have linked me to that!

 

[Mr.Micron]

For small projects I use a silentaire 50 Which is not an affordable compressor but will handle what you are doing size wise.
Mainly you want a compressor that can handle 35 psi (even in they HVLP spray guns that is all they need. Tank size mainly depends on you I have a 300 gallon for big jobs that can handle my lifts , airtools and spraying cars and trucks , But it is loud and sits in its' pwn room that is sound proofed . The silent air is for airbrushing only or small jobs. A lot of folks use the pancake style compressor and if you search on this forum you will find guide to even build your own silent compressor . Always go the highest cfm at least that is the way I was taught many years ago .
Main thing most folks do not like it a lot of noise on a compressor ,

 

[MajorMagnuM]

OK! well i know i'm not in the same compressor size league as you! i was hoping to get away with a 10 litre compressor tank. ie something in this league
http://products.dewalt.co.uk/siteequipment/productdetails/catno/DPC10QTC/#

as the spec says, it has 13.8 bar which is about 200psi. This amount of pressure would work for an suv tyre so can i assume it would work for something like an iwata rg2 or 3? With refeence to what you said earlier, it also seems relatively quiet.
with regards to flow as pressure i think is sufficient for what i need.
However, its air displacement in cfm is 4.2 and delivery is 2.9 cfm. which one of these ratings is most relevant, and are these numbers too low for what i would like to do? I notice the paint pdf you linked me to does not discuss cfm ratings but does mention nozzle sizes.

 

[MajorMagnuM]

ok ive looed at the specs of all the sil air 50 range and it seems they kick out about 2 cfm. ive also found this cfm guide

http://www.iwata-medea.com/products-type/cfm-guide/

it seems from this that the larger the spray pattern desired, the more cfm needed. so with up to 3 cfm i will be able to pray a width of an inch to one and a half inches, which im guessing is enough for the largest project ive mentioned.

so basically, on psi and cfm this dewalt compressor will work for projects that can cope with a spay pattern up to an inch and a half, and i can reduce the pressure as needed for smaller airbrush detail work.

Is that all correct?
Ive also got the impression that if i wanted to up the cfm for even larger projects i could daisy chain a second compressor in line with this one.
Im looking at this particular compressor as i can get one real cheap, which makes it a primary contender at least on price.
would really appreciate your thoughts on the above and thankyou for the time spent so far!

 

[Squishy]

If you are looking at spraying car panels then I recommend a mini hvlp. The 10 litre dewalt will work well for the airbrushes, but will struggle to keep up with a mini hvlp, you would have to wait for it to catch up, not ideal in the middle of a job.

 

[MajorMagnuM]

Well thanks squishy. Are you the same same chap that recommended the benchair extracter fanon utube> if so, thankyou for that video and the follow up one. It really helped me make a good buying decision!!!
MM

 

[MajorMagnuM]

HI again Squishy. I've been looking at hvlp guns and see that they require high cfm ( often around 9), so understand your comment better now. would i be able to up the cfm of the dewalt compressor by adding another tank when i wanted to use a larger gun, such as the hvlp you have suggested?
Can i ask, typically what is the spray width of such an hvlp gun? i notice the iwata rg3 ( which seems to be a mini pray gun, has a good wide pattern of 1.5 inches but gets away with a cfm use of 1.1 to 1.8, which perhaps would make it useful for larger projects with the dewalt compressor?

 

[Malky]

HI again Squishy. I've been looking at hvlp guns and see that they require high cfm ( often around 9), so understand your comment better now. would i be able to up the cfm of the dewalt compressor by adding another tank when i wanted to use a larger gun, such as the hvlp you have suggested?
Can i ask, typically what is the spray width of such an hvlp gun? i notice the iwata rg3 ( which seems to be a mini pray gun, has a good wide pattern of 1.5 inches but gets away with a cfm use of 1.1 to 1.8, which perhaps would make it useful for larger projects with the dewalt compressor?

The size of the tank doesn't have any bearing on the cfm, it's the horsepower or size of the motor that makes the difference, adding a larger tank to your current compressor would only give it more storage space for air, but if the tank is too big you could burn out the motor trying to fill it, I would leave the compressor alone since it has been built with the parts that optimal that size of of compressor, your best bet would to buy a compressor dedicated to your larger stuff from B&Q or Home base or such, they generally have reasonably priced units which will come with the standard size fittings for a mini spray gun, the mini spray guns have fan pattern rather than circular pattern as airbrushes have, but the size of the fan is relative to the size of the nozzle, when you look at spray guns you can usually see in the technical data the sizes of the fan at different distances.

Have a look around at some items you may think are suitable and post links to them here so we can tell you which is the most suitable both in operation and price, if you need information in a hurry, you can always start new threads with your queries rather than sift through old threads which could take ages.

 

[MajorMagnuM]

The size of the tank doesn't have any bearing on the cfm, it's the horsepower or size of the motor that makes the difference, adding a larger tank to your current compressor would only give it more storage space for air, but if the tank is too big you could burn out the motor trying to fill it

got it, duty cycle etc, i will therefore just buy the right compressor rather than muck around increasing cfm.

Have a look around at some items you may think are suitable and post links to them here so we can tell you which is the most suitable both in operation and price,

well, so far ive been unable to identify an airbrush for my smaller airbrushed but think a .3 nozzle will suffice for my 120mm cubed projects.
i thought the rg3 would do the larger stuff and perhaps would be useful as its quite low cfm requirements compared to hvlp? I saws a vid on it and understood the point the guy was making about its fan pattern etc for larger work.

http://www.iwata-medea.com/products/spray-guns/rg3/

 

[Malky]

well, so far ive been unable to identify an airbrush for my smaller airbrushed but think a .3 nozzle will suffice for my 120mm cubed projects.
i thought the rg3 would do the larger stuff and perhaps would be useful as its quite low cfm requirements compared to hvlp? I saws a vid on it and understood the point the guy was making about its fan pattern etc for larger work.

http://www.iwata-medea.com/products/spray-guns/rg3/

The RG3 is a very reputable tool so not an unwise choice, but I would recommend a cheaper HVLP in range of 0.8 to 1.0 for the larger stuff, these have a larger spray pattern so coverage is generally quicker on larger objects, Iwata is a top brand but you're not tied to that one brand you can find more economical alternatives still with decent brand names, such as 3M, hamach or sprarmax among others, there are also kits available with varying nozzle sizes.

 

[MajorMagnuM]

ok when you say larger stuff what are you imagining? at the moment, i can see myself attempting anything larger than a 50cm square area. Would an hvlp as you say be the most appropriate for that?
re compressor, i think the best route will be to go for something portable like the dewalt or something of similar weight and spec, and add a stronger one when i start larger areas with a more cfm hungry gun.
please feel free to point out some suggestions to narrow my focus on both comp and gun and brush!

 

[Malky]

ok when you say larger stuff what are you imagining? at the moment, i can see myself attempting anything larger than a 50cm square area. Would an hvlp as you say be the most appropriate for that?
re compressor, i think the best route will be to go for something portable like the dewalt or something of similar weight and spec, and add a stronger one when i start larger areas with a more cfm hungry gun.
please feel free to point out some suggestions to narrow my focus on both comp and gun and brush!

LOL, actually no, but I thought I saw mentioned somewhere something the size of a car door so I think your Iwata will indeed suffice, I myself have an Iwata standard airbrush with 0.35 nozzle, namely the Iwata Exclipse SBS which i use for artwork, and i also have a cheap HVLP with 0.8 nozzle I bough to spray gesso primer onto wooden panels for the same artwork, the compressor I use is this one http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/got-me-a-new-toy.16425/ it hardly makes any noise and wasn't that expensive.

 

[Squishy]

Ah, I too thought you wanted to paint car door sizes. In that case the mini hvlp is probably overkill, and you wont need the larger compressor.
Some airbrushes have more than one nozzle size option. For example the Iwata eclipse, (a great little all rounder, workhorse of a brush, capable of the fine detail of a dedicated detail brush with practise, and also a 2 inch spray pattern so very versatile) comes with a .35 nozzle, but you can also get an optional .5 to swap out to for even larger coverage. So might be worth checking if brushes you are interested in have other options as it could save some cash.

(it wasn't me who recommended the youtube vid, but glad someone was able to help you out. )

Edit- just realised Malky beat me to the different nozzle size suggestion. I guess great - if slightly warped- minds, think alike.

 

[Malky]

Ah, I too thought you wanted to paint car door sizes. In that case the mini hvlp is probably overkill, and you wont need the larger compressor.
Some airbrushes have more than one nozzle size option. For example the Iwata eclipse, (a great little all rounder, workhorse of a brush, capable of the fine detail of a dedicated detail brush with practise, and also a 2 inch spray pattern so very versatile) comes with a .35 nozzle, but you can also get an optional .5 to swap out to for even larger coverage. So might be worth checking if brushes you are interested in have other options as it could save some cash.

(it wasn't me who recommended the youtube vid, but glad someone was able to help you out. )

Edit- just realised Malky beat me to the different nozzle size suggestion. I guess great - if slightly warped- minds, think alike.

Not so much of the "slightly" young lady, I didn't come here to be insulted,

 

[MajorMagnuM]

Thankyou for your reply Squishy. Oddly the tube vid was done hy someone with you name which is why i made the assumption it was you!
r.e different nozzle sizes, the div i watched was bigging up the rg3 as a larger spray pattern gun as the pattern itself was more effective at putting down even coats on larger areas, compared to a smaller airbrush "opened up" . is that not correct? IF i can get away with an iwata eclipse as you have metioned, which i can do small and medium projects, that would be great!
this link is where i was forming my preconceptions about fan pattern etc.