Checkout my paints..

airbrushtutor

Love Spreading Overseer
Just had some Holbein Aeroflash come in from the states, put it here on my desk and realised just how many paints I actually have.
I have a favourite, but it's not perfect for all applications. The com-art is perfect for monotone portraiture, but not great for erasing and createx illustration is the contrary. Looking forward to seeing how the Holbeins perform..

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I shall look forward to your thoughts on the Holbein paints but doesn't it work out pretty expensive to have to order from the states?

I'm sure you have but just to be sure have you tried the Com-Art on anything other than your clay board?, I started using Com-Art too last summer, at the same time I picked up some Schoelershamer paper and to be honest I couldn't believe how easy it was to both erase and scratch.

I did a little research on the clay board including how it's made, I also watched a couple manufacturers on Youtube, and from what I've found so far I get the impression that it behaves very similar to my own gessoed MDF panels, perhaps a little less absorbent, I have been toying with the idea of adding some water based matt varnish to last coat of gesso to try to decrease absorbency, but just like your clay board I found that it didn't erase well with any of the paints I've used so far.

I've also discovered that the Schminke paints I started out with which I had totally written off as being useless actually also erase exceptionally well on the Schoelershamer paper which means I get to use them up and because the Schminke paints are mostly ink based they seem to atomise better than anything else I've used and I thin that;s the only thing I ever liked about them till now.

I think you seem to have observed yourself, it's necessary to build a database in our heads so that we can choose the right paint, media and possibly brush combination for specific circumstances.

I am really not the most patient of people and my drawing skills are far more advanced than my airbrush control skills so when I did the small Jessica painting I did what I would do if I was drawing and literally blasted in the face area and erased away the highlights and lighter areas instead of struggling to get it right with precise airbrushing which has always been my downfall, but I have learned that the combination of both is ideal for me.

I don't see any Etac on your table, have you tried this and if so what is your verdict?

Keep us up to date on the Holbeins :)
 
Ditto from me, as well!
always liked the illustration better, but maybe because I erase better than I paint! LOL!
 
Hey Madbrush :)

It's about $130 Australian to have them sent here. I can't get them from anywhere else for a better price that i know of.. I just want to find a paint/ medium combination that i can stick with. Creating your best artworks comes not only from experience with the airbrush but techniques used with your paint and board - such as over reducing createx paints to kill the binder and allow for soft erasing of transparents, or using 800 grit sandpaper on claybord to rub out mistakes and create texture!

I love the claybord mate, it's fantastic for scratching and erasing - but com-art is likely a paint i would reserve for paper. The binder is too gooey and takes quite a while to dry which means that if you begin using a blade immediately after air drying the paint, the binder is still sticky and little globules will stick on the artwork. When you move your hand over the artwork it sticks them down and to get them off can often take the paint back to the white of the board. So com-art is off for blade work all together for me.. I also find sometimes that it sticks a little too well.
I've tried it on Yupo paper also (a synthetic paper), however due to how thin the paint is and the gooey binder, it seems to absorb which makes it hard to erase after air dry and next to impossible to erase after it's completely dry.. it's a no go on yupo paper for me.
the advantage of com-arts is an immaculate flow and infrequent tip dry.
I can understand why you would like this on schoellershammer paper.

The createx illustration works like a dream on clayboard. you have a small window where erasing/scratching is extremely simple, then it hardens somewhat but you can still scratch and erase with aggressive enough erasers. This means you can lay one paint down, wait a day, lay a transparent down and scratch off ONLY the top layer of paint. This is imperative for creating a range of textures in certain locations of the artwork that call for the base color to show through.
I've also tried this on Yupo paper and it outperforms the claybord erasing, however scratching is a little harder! straight black seems to soak into the paper just a little, so it looks like it doesn't quite scratch back to white? I'm not sure if it's my eyes or if it is genuinely soaking in?
with an aggressive perfection eraser i'm able to erase back to the white of the paper in seconds, after air dry it's almost instantaneous - like a super aggressive eraser.
The disadvantage is that the flow is pretty horrible straight out of the bottle. it's better when you apply transparent base and/or reducer. but it's more of a splash down and erase type of paint. It's excellent on the claybord or over reduced on paper/card.

Etac i have used but not extensively. From all reviews i've heard it wouldn't work well on claybord as you can scratch it off using loose stencils and shields on the artwork. I loved the flow of Etac, very little tip dry similar to the com-art - again ideal for cards and papers.

I've just given the Holbein a try - it seems fantastic. it's like a mix between com-art and createx illustration colours. I can only really judge it well once i've used it on an artwork to see how it goes, but the flow is immediately better than createx illustration paints. I tested it on the yupo paper and scratching after air dry works beautifully back to white. I then laid down a straight yellow transparent and the first coat wasn't noticeable over the black which was a nice surprise as the CI yellow seems to cover quite harshly.
I'll do my next artwork with the Holbeins on Claybord i think and see how it performs.

Be careful with inks.. they won't be color fast, so over time certain colours will fade faster than others - such are the characteristics of dyes :eek:ops:
 
@airbrushtutor WOW, you may have a little rest now if you wish, lol, Thanks for the heads up on the Holbein paints, luckily they are available here in Holland close enough for me to just go and pick up and from what you say may work better on my gessoed board, certainly if I decrease the absorbency as I mentioned.

It sounds like the the E-tac is too close in behaviour to Com-art to bother trying it, and the properties of the CI might not be compatible with my incredible lack of patience, lol

I had no real intention of using the Schmike for permanent projects but because it behaves so well on my paper I can at least use it for practising techniques and such to save wasting better paints, I paid for it so I might as well use it up right?

I have to say I do love the Schoelershamer paper but for bigger projects I also like the my MDF panels since it;s cheap as hell and they cut it to any size I want, and since it is my job the preparation is a doddle.

We shall look forward to your next painting and the moment of truth.

By the way I also have a bottle of Golden carbon black which was intended for mixing, but it doesn't well at all with Com-Art, it separates immediately a sprays so grainy it's almost like sand texture, but I tried a little of it neat and noticed that it was almost a graphite in colour so I reckon I could use that as an aid to my pencil drawings.
 
In regards to scratching and erasing I've had the same issues with S-Hammer 4g board using com-art also. Immediate erasing after paint is layed down can create a gum up of sorts of the paint and requires a bit more work. Waiting 24 plus hours and then erasing proves a little harder but will result in less gum up. I am still trying to find that happy place time between spraying and erasing. It is fer sure a bitter sweet relationship between me and Com-art but I do love the flow of it. Thx for the write-up on this :)
 
In regards to scratching and erasing I've had the same issues with S-Hammer 4g board using com-art also. Immediate erasing after paint is layed down can create a gum up of sorts of the paint and requires a bit more work. Waiting 24 plus hours and then erasing proves a little harder but will result in less gum up. I am still trying to find that happy place time between spraying and erasing. It is fer sure a bitter sweet relationship between me and Com-art but I do love the flow of it. Thx for the write-up on this :)

I honestly can't say I've ever noticed the gumming up problem but I do notice my hands will stick a little as mentioned, however because I'm used to graphite drawing I rarely come in contact with the work, on the few occasions I need to lean on my graphite work I will lay down a piece of clean paper over it, I do get a little gummy paint when I scratch but I constantly dust that away with an old painters duster brush.

At the shop where I first bought my Com-Art paints they advised me that I could use AA 4011 reducer for thinning so I bought some of that too, I know water woks fine but I've been using this reducer and both spidering and tip dry are hardly ever an issue any more, this is possibly why I don't have the gumming issue, so far I'm happy with the combination, I liked the G4 so much I now have a huge supply of it, I doubt I'll ever run out, lol
 
Etac i have used but not extensively. From all reviews i've heard it wouldn't work well on claybord as you can scratch it off using loose stencils and shields on the artwork. I loved the flow of Etac, very little tip dry similar to the com-art - again ideal for cards and papers.
I use Etac on Claybord almost exclusively now. I haven't had a problem with stencils or shields scratching the surface.
The Ampersand Artist Panels are a different story, they scratch easily since there is little tooth and no absorption.
 
I use Etac on Claybord almost exclusively now. I haven't had a problem with stencils or shields scratching the surface.
The Ampersand Artist Panels are a different story, they scratch easily since there is little tooth and no absorption.

Ah there you go.. And here I am saying Etac won't work.
A lesson to anyone is to try it yourself to see what works.
Does anyone know of any suppliers of Etac outside of the UK?
Im interested in trying those artist panels now [emoji39]
 
Ah there you go.. And here I am saying Etac won't work.
A lesson to anyone is to try it yourself to see what works.
Does anyone know of any suppliers of Etac outside of the UK?
Im interested in trying those artist panels now [emoji39]

Those artist panels are much cheaper than Claybord but not great for airbrushing. They scratch too easily. Paint can be scratch off with movement of your stencils. I did do your meow tutorial on it though and worked out okay, but I didn't stencil much on that one.

I've only heard of two places that sell Etac, Foxy in NL, and USAirbrush here in the US.
 
I use Etac on Claybord almost exclusively now. I haven't had a problem with stencils or shields scratching the surface.
The Ampersand Artist Panels are a different story, they scratch easily since there is little tooth and no absorption.
where did you buy the 'artist panel' from? i'm checking dickblick but it doesn't look like they have them.

I've just bought a set of Etac also from USAirbrush. I would assume that createx colours and Holbeins would work great on the artist panel if it is so scratch friendly. Would like to try it out..
 
I'm jealous LOL, wouldn't know which one to use with all those options Hahaha, was thinking about trying some tattoo ink later on today, realized I still have some colors in my tatt box..Should reduce well :), but don't think they'll erase LOL
 
where did you buy the 'artist panel' from? i'm checking dickblick but it doesn't look like they have them.

I've just bought a set of Etac also from USAirbrush. I would assume that createx colours and Holbeins would work great on the artist panel if it is so scratch friendly. Would like to try it out..
I bought mine from Jerry's Artarama. It's available on Amazon too.
Let me know how it works for you.
 
Ah there you go.. And here I am saying Etac won't work.
A lesson to anyone is to try it yourself to see what works.
Does anyone know of any suppliers of Etac outside of the UK?
Im interested in trying those artist panels now [emoji39]
I get my E'tac from the Australian supplier http://www.ozairbrush.com
They are great people to deal with and in Gerringong N.S.W.
 
I get my E'tac from the Australian supplier http://www.ozairbrush.com
They are great people to deal with and in Gerringong N.S.W.

Oz is actually a member here on the forum, he has been from the very start but hasn't been on for a while, if I remember correctly he also supplied Grex airbrushes and Grex paints which I now believe are E-tac private stock, cool dude when he was here and I'm pretty sure he still is, lol




I bought mine from Jerry's Artarama. It's available on Amazon too.
Let me know how it works for you.
@airbrushtutor , Some important info Mitch and anyone else, I just checked out the link here from Helio and delved a little into the "artists board" and from the description of it, it turns out to be exactly what I have been using my self from the very start before I got into the G4 paper, it states that the board is a wood panel same as is used for ampersand clay board but coated with gesso, as much as I find the prices on this particular website very very reasonable, I feel the need to enlighten a few who may wish to save there hard earned cash for more important stuff like brush parts and such.

I started out using canvas and it's ability to amplify and emphasize over-spray depressed me so that got kicked into touch, however at the time I found other mediums fat too expensive so I decided to go my own way and started priming mdf panels first with ordinary house hold acrylic primer followed by two coats of gesso, all my earlier stuff was done on these panels with great success, but I now use pre-primed MDF and the same tow coats of gesso.

What's important here is the cost, I see on the is website even with there handsomely reduced prices a 12" X 12" panel costs $4-99 or in my case €4-30 approximately, but I'll continue here in Euro's;

I buy a sheet of pre-primed 3mm MDF which costs me €14, out this panel I get 32 panels each 30 cm X 30 cm (12" X 12") the price per panel comes out at €0-44, I then spray my panel with two coats of gesso, here in Holland I frequently find gesso for around €1-99 for a half litre, I can cover the whole board with two bottles which when calculated comes out at €0-13 per panel or €4-00 for the whole board, therefore, each panel has cost me a total of €0-57 or around 75 cents US.

My 32 12" X 12" panels have cost me a whopping €18-00 instead of €160-00, when you consider after preparing three boards you have saved enough money to buy yourself a mark one Micron at least.

If anyone would like to make their own boards based on this info, I should point out that the these boards are pre-primed ans have a very light relief, this can be sanded flat very quickly with 400 wet & dry (dry of course) and if yo have access to a (mini) spray gun tow coats of gesso leave with you a super flat texture-less surface to work on, depending on nozzle size your gesso may require thinning and subsequently more coats.

Considering the difference in the cost I thin it clearly makes sense for anyone to take the half day it takes to do this, I usually do this on my inspiration-less days, which these days is almost every day, lol
 
So are we able to order directly from the Madbrush artist boards:whistling:

No but you can purchase the fact sheet so yo can do it yourself, for the measly sum of 50 quid, lol

I forgot to mention I buy the boards at the DIY shop and in most cases they will cut the boards to any size you wish for free, some may charge for this service but there would still be huge saving, although this type of board actually cuts very easily with a Stanley knife.
 
Hey Madbrush - i'd be interested to compare the performance of both boards. While your way will save a lot of money, i have nowhere where i can coat panels of MDF in Gesso.. I do have a garage but it has fridges, appliances, part of a bed etc in there that can't be oversprayed and i wouldn't take the time to cover it all. I'd prefer to buy it before doing that.
Whereabouts do you spray the gesso coats and is the gesso water resistant after drying?
 
Hey Madbrush - i'd be interested to compare the performance of both boards. While your way will save a lot of money, i have nowhere where i can coat panels of MDF in Gesso.. I do have a garage but it has fridges, appliances, part of a bed etc in there that can't be oversprayed and i wouldn't take the time to cover it all. I'd prefer to buy it before doing that.
Whereabouts do you spray the gesso coats and is the gesso water resistant after drying?

No Mitch the gesso isn't completely water resistant after drying but that fact adds a lot to it's properties, like canvas it is extremely difficult to erase if for example you brushed or rolled the gesso on and left a texture, although you could roll it it on and sand it flat but then you need more coats.

I never spray the whole board in one piece because like yourself that would be impossible for me, I have my boards cut to size at the shop and just usually do a couple of boards at a time just before I need them in my studio, but the gesso is so quick drying you could easily spray them outdoors, with a proper spray gun one board would take you less than half an hour for two coats.

There is no harm in buying pre-made boards when you can afford it and I'm sure you can, but it's a shame that you have to order from abroad pushing the cost up even further, it's all dead money, the prices on that website are very good but any saving you made would be wasted in shipping costs.

I bet that around where you live, there is either a body shop or a painting and decorating company who have all the facilities you would need to blast a few boards in one pop, even if you let them do it they blast five boards or more in less an hour, we already know the materiel cost so you might be looking at $30 labour cost or an extra $6 per board, however you look at it still a huge saving.

I get the impression that in Australia, this and a lot of other items can only be obtained from overseas, this indicates to me a huge marketing hole which could be exploited and how many artists do you think would be happy to buy a board from you for $3 instead of $6 + shipping? a gessoed board is a gessoed board no matter where it comes from, you could get yourself a free lifetime supply as well as making money at the same time.

If it were me personally and I was as young as you are, I would be straight on it, but for own art which is hobby and earns me nothing other than self satisfaction, the thought of saving $500 over 4 boards is very attractive indeed.

Whatever you decide you definitely have option to have load of boards made for you while you carry on airbrushing, you simply supply the board and gesso and let someone else do the small amount of work needed, but well worth your while to order a couple of small boards to try out first in case it isn't to your liking.
 
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