For Every Airbrush Artist!

Ready to get involved? Register for free and you won't see any google advertising!

Register

copyrights.??

Discussion in 'Open Bar!' started by bex, Apr 24, 2017.


  1. bex

    bex Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    201
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    hampshire uk
    whats everyones views?

    mine was (until i was really called up on these in another general art group i joined) :

    to use many ref photos, design round your ref pics from your own imagination and put your style on to it , paint it yourself obviously and sing it as yours - if its very similar to someone elses or that idea was from seeing their work credit them with the original idea.

    this comment got me in sooooo much trouble!
    was called out as non-professional because of it.

    the issue arose with film art and themed art where even though i use lots of ref pics and designed around it with own ideas it obviously for it to look like the themes i had to get a close match so when doing themed work etc i just post it saying my airbrush work based on (for example) tim burton film theme. i made the design layout based on his art and spent hours piecing it together and airbrushed on the surface and tied it all together with my style - so what i'm trying to say is i am the airbrush artist the theme is from his film art.

    *be warned - this view is wrong - dont, under any circumstances, say this in any general art group you are in, believe me its not worth the backlash! :eek:

    so anything other than still life of fruit (now i know why theres so many boring fruit bowl pics in art galleries then) is breaching the rules : you cant paint starwars, tim burton, avengers,any cartoons, any brand logos, bike/car logos, celebrities etc, etc.. all stuff i regulary paint as do others i see. even if its not for profit still an issue as i was abruptly told off for my daughters frozen wall art.

    also i have seen some amazing airbrush artists paint skulls and flames before, which in turn inspired me to paint, but when i airbrushed skulls and flames i would say saw this amazing artist paint a skull inside a flame like this thought it was cool -it inspired me to do this work - post my picture - never outright copied his work but the idea came to me to paint a skull and flame was from seeing his work etc. this seems fine as for me i also love seeing the artwork other artist do after seeing my art or ideas. i am so happy i inspire other to create art work, its awesome.

    i think myself lucky to have a great imagination and i can lay out designs and create themes really well i love getting unique work requests where im asked to do stuff like that. but i also get so many customers say i want this theme.. or this celeb or can i have a huge bike/car logo with some flames. or i have seen this artwork can i have this on my car these all breach the rule.

    *also would like to say i get sent through a lot of pictures customers want from google where they just pull (cluelessly pull) other artist work off the interenet and send it through. saying can i have this artwork on the car etc - - my standard response to this type of request is : i can see thats an awesome picture you have found, very talented artist, i can see their style etc. what aspects do you like about it? i will design something from me with my style based on what you tell me you like about the work and i will put some designs together for you to look at.

    this get hard when they send through film art and say i like hulk! as long as hulk looks like hulk i'm fine with your designs.. :alien:o_O:lipssealed::confused:


    interested in everyone else's views..
    because there is a lot of themed work out there so clearly i'm not the only one who thinks themed work is fine.

    :whistling:also im happy for people to think my view was wrong or point out my flaws in this way of thinking - just pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease dont shout it at me like the other group did, im happy to learn and take note for future :thumbsup::p
  2. Ronald art

    Ronald art Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    1,799
    Trophy Points:
    111
    copyrights are a tricky thing and can get an artist in trouble real fast so I am always real careful about the refs I pick on the other hand if it is for practice work only with no intention to sell or use it for promotion I will use what ever I like to use ;)
    bex likes this.
  3. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Admin

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    13,430
    Likes Received:
    7,909
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Bloomington,Indiana
    As the USA law reads on Copyright in order to avoid a lawsuit you must change the original by at least 10% on the main subject. Being the university I work for just had a huge class on this due to a couple of the art department professors came under fire for this .
    Now if you are doing a movie painting say from Toy Story it would be hard to make 10% changes and still say it is Woody,It is even hard to get written permission from Pixal or even worse Disney without paying them money .
    There is also a clause that if it is a study piece for leaning and not for sell ever you can copy a painting 100%. But you can not sign it ,Once you sign it you are saying it is your own work .
    But art has been copied for 1000 of years . so it is hard to prove you copied a piece unless it is a well known piece of art.
    But each country has a different view on this and Copy writes were put in place more for the written art form more then the art work part it somehow carried over to the art world .
    If I am going to use a reference from a know artist I will write to them and ask permission to use part or all of there work and save a copy of the email and then I will glue a copy of the permission to the back of the piece if they say it is alright.
    mainly bottom line in this day and age is cover your rear.
    being this is the digital age it is a lot easier to find copy artist and file a law suit .
    Vladimir and bex like this.
  4. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Mod

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    11,234
    Likes Received:
    8,140
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Hampshire South Coast UK
    With movies and corporations etc, I think that to represent the character you have to copy that character, it has to look like them. It's like doing a portrait that doesn't look like the person otherwise. It's when money comes into it that it becomes an issue. Even then a one off shouldn't be an issue, but more mass production for business. However, if that company saw it and chose to fight, they would be within their rights - but for a one off they don't seem to. Does that make it right? - I guess not, but it happens, and I think within those limits is somewhat accepted by huge companies. I actually painted Disney hats - the characters in my own style - as giftsfor my daughter and her husband - themed around their wedding, when they went to Disney World. They wore them the whole time, and got asked by staff from cleaners to someone quite high up, where they got them, and how nice they were. They were honest about it, and to tell the truth I was a bit nervous when they phoned to tell me, I waited for the phone to ring lol. But the only reactions were positive - however they were one offs and a gift. I suspect if I had been selling them, it would have been a different story.

    I am guessing the other group are not custom painters etc - but regular artists? If so, they are more likely to be protective of their work - which is fair enough, and don't get asked for the same type of comissions. I really try to do as much original work as I can, but when you have what you think is a new idea, it's likely all been done before by someone, and who knows what can have influenced you. A bowl of fruit is a bowl of fruit right? It's been done before millions of times, if I decide to do one, is that original??? But I would be pissed if I thought someone had outright copied me and made money off it, but would be happy enough if it was for practice or they wanted to try and do it themselves etc.

    All you can do is be as ethical as you can for your own conscious.. Get permission if possible, use royalty free refs (I belong to a photo site where all the pics are free to be used however you like, even if its to sell). But if someone asks for a star wars bike, you can't do it without copying star wars to some degree. So you have to decide - am I going to do a star wars bike at all? Some people are happy to, others aren't.
    jord001 and bex like this.
  5. bex

    bex Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    201
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    hampshire uk
    yep other art group is a regular pencil and paper type art group how could you tell squishy ;). there's a lot of bowls of fruit posted (or flowers they also really like flowers) - which incidentally - how many different ways can you paint fruit before you are closely copying something this is classed as inspired from others work and looks like their bowl of fruit! .. even if you put the fruit into the bowl to paint it, something inspired you to want to place it that way or even to paint the fruit in the first place! ............maybe that picture hanging in the gallery....
    *again , also dont say this in regular art groups - it is not worth the responses as lots of paper and pencil artist won't get your level of sarcasm and attempt of a joke to lighten the situation you got yourself into.

    i also mentioned that i might have even got a person, dressed him in a storm trooper type outfit - (made by myself) then took my own photo and painted him and was that allowed - they told me i was still braking laws as its the idea as well as the art and the film then inspired me to dress him that way. i have read up so many copyright rules over the past few weeks and it doesn't make any sense apart from someone richer than you can control what you paint if they so desire to by shouting the word copyright, essentially.

    agree with above, you have to be inspired as an artist by everything including others around you - but change a good percentage if something really inspires you and go the extra steps to make what you do your own and have decency to say i loved your work i want to do similar.
    i do give credit to all of my reference work from the photographers i have got permission from i also use a free ref group too, very useful place. , if i want to paint a car - i take a picture myself, if i want to paint a tiger i go to the zoo with a camera etc and i have some friends who are awesome with camera effect etc so i always get their permissions firsts then paint the effects into backgrounds for my work etc.. :)

    other art group also had humongous issue with a wall mural i painted for my daughter when they snooped my online profiles it was a frozen character as she wanted frozen theme - no profit made by me i didn't even have a ref pic when i painted it watched the film once with her and painted it out my head about 4 months later. - but as it stood out as being very similar and easily recognisable and could be seen by others - so it brake laws apparently? i told them i don't think it does as it was for personal use. but i got quoted on loads law stuff with this section / paragraph here / clause here says its not allowed.
    the last time i studied copyright was over 15 years ago at art college, so i'm clearly really out of date with my knowledge and it was only the basics i learnt anyways.

    i loved doing the themed stuff and airbrushing customers favourite films etc, but i'm just confused now.
    i'm intrigued to know what happens if you ask the like of Disney if you can airbrush paint their theme? i expect you get an outright no, but maybe they say yes with conditions like - i want 90% of the profit and it to look exact.anyone ever asked disney or the likes what they think of other artists themeing work to be similar to there films?

    film artist are very talented , but they are paid a wage to create something from design ideas for big money making corporations, so it doesn't seem the same as other artist that create unique work from their own ideas. also i have worked for a big(ish) company painting boards for a displays company under their copyrights and giving them all ownership of work. it was me drawing/painting - but my ideas were suppressed - i did what i was told, my signature was not allowed on any of the work. it wasn't unique and wasn't my style it was just my ability to paint they hired.
  6. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Mod

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    11,234
    Likes Received:
    8,140
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Hampshire South Coast UK
    I guess the law is the law no matter if you're a huge corp, or a slinger in your shed. But I know they can vary from country to country. I looked at getting something I did copywritten, and realised I was reading a US site. When I changed to uk, it was a little different. But I have a brain like a seive so can't remember hardly any of it lol. I just know it costs a lot! Especially after the initial period is over and you have to re-new. But any original work is automatically copywritten to some degree. If you can prove development of concept, show evidence of working through the design etc, and have something to show the dates (writing it on the drawings isn't enough I believe as it could be added later, as I say, brain like a sieve lol so can't remember all the details), and anything that comes after will struggle against it. So the paint slingers in their sheds are still covered, I guess they just feel more vulnerable without the might of a big company name behind them.

    I admit I did not ask Disney permission for the hats I did. They were just a silly little gift, and I didn't dream they would wear them everywhere lol. If I'd thought about it I might have realised it could be an issue, but it didn't occur to me until they phoned and said everyone is asking about the hats lol.

    I got my kids a share in Disney as a gift. One share is not really worth anything, but the actual certificates are, they have artwork on them and are numbered. so it was just a little collectable. However they still get all the relevant paperwork, newsletters etc. There is a magazine that once showed how people have Disneyfied their homes, including murals. They were just pics people had sent in and they published them in a "look how cool this is" way. So although they had every right to have an issue, they obviously didn't. They knew it was just a kids room or whatever. I think those companies realise things like that will happen, and as long as it isn't on big scale and money isn't involved, they seem to kind of accept it to some degree as a form of flattery. Besides it's not good PR if they try and sue someone for decorating their kids room. When a regular person with no idea of how to get an image to make a living for them creates something awesome, then someone comes along and basically uses it to make a fortune with, then its seen as more of an issue. Even though its essentially the same laws being broken just to different degrees.

    I think the law also takes common sense into account. A pub in Southampton called The Hobbit had been trading for close to 30 years I think, and the drinks were all themed on characters and places from the book. The Tolkein family never complained, but as soon as the film rights were bought, the film company tried to get the place shut down. Even some of the stars of the film thought it was ridiculous and joined the campaign to keep it open, and the film company lost in the end.

    I think if you look hard enough, you will be able to find a connection to something else that's already gone before. My friend wrote a book about a dog, and the cover has a dog laying down with a ball next to it. Another writer threatened to sue as she also had a book coming out with a dog and ball on the cover, even though neither bok was released at the time, she decided my friend had somehow seen and copied her. Until it was pointed out by the publishing company that there were maybe 15 relatively well known books already in existence with a dog and ball on the cover, and some they had published themselves, and they would like to know where she got her idea from, and maybe if there was a monopoly on the idea of a dog and ball she could be counter sued.

    The letter of the law says don't do it, but as I said common sense also comes into play.
    jord001 likes this.
  7. Mikej2

    Mikej2 Young Tutorling

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I'm no expert, I'm not a lawyer, so ignore the following:

    When topics like this come up I think of Warhol and that can of soup, what does the pencil/paper group think of that work?

    My understanding (subject to correct correction), as long as something is for personal use a person can copy anything they want as precisely as they want and even sign it if they want to for personal use and enjoyment and even as a gift (possibly). But as soon as sales or marketing or advertising of one's services come up then a whole different set of potential rules apply.

    I can photograph a car and sell prints of that car without permission of the owner of the car and without approval of the manufacturer of that car because I'm selling the prints of the photo that I took and I own the copyright to that photo, per my understanding. Now some things like the Eiffel Tower and France have taken steps to state ownership of the lighting effects so apparently people are not allowed to sell or publish images of the Eiffel Tower without permission and paying fees if the tower is lighted. Just my understanding and opinion.

    Sounds a bit like the other group is full of potential net-nannies who should spend more time on their own art and less time criticizing the art of others.
    Chris g, jord001 and JackEb like this.
  8. Tocean

    Tocean Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Lauderdale by the Sea FL USA
    Reminds me about Godzilla, Toho studios will sue at a drop of a hat at anyone trying to profit off their big star.

    Interesting subject that's a double edge sword and can get a rise out of anyone that's had their art(or anything, like music, photography or journalism) "stolen," imo one offs and gifts shouldn't be a big deal, on the other hand if you created a character and someone was profiting from your work then the shoe is on the other foot.

    It's interesting to note that if you use the likeness of a person, say Johnny Depp, he could sue you if he chose to.

    I'm sure it becomes more of an issue if your mass producing, usually you get a cease and desist before you'll get strait out sued unless your making big money off it.
    jord001 likes this.
  9. RebelAir

    RebelAir Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,925
    Likes Received:
    2,181
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Victoria Australia
    I'm at the age where I dont care what others think LOL..Do what you want..its your art..If someone yanks ya for it, politely tell em to **** off :) Fact is I come from that world and care little for what pretentious artists think about art or their own degree's..9/10 thats because they cant faithfully represent anything and have to belittle others who can..Most times its simple jealousy..Do what you enjoy to do but saying that, I do avoid some things but if someone came up and wanted a particular ref..if their cash is real, they get what they want because some have the goal to earn a living of their art..I always prefer original work though and generally try to gravitate people to what I want and not what they want LOL..Is generally pretty easy when they begin to understand the idea of something being uniquely designed for them only...Like tattooing, some come along with a generic tatt, I pretty quickly can change someones mind generally that every man and dog has the same tatt..Don't ya want to be unique..Then add the extra dollars it would take to make it so..If they are adament about that particular design..i do it still cause its all just money and they then have to regret it..Once my job is done I forget it and worry about the next LOL...But the overall fact I look at is that it may be anothers idea but essentially its handcrafted by you..Idea's are cheap, everyone has the same idea at some time to another artist past (trademarks though I avoid)..I can look at nearly every artwork and see relation between it and another..Also most won't tell you but many traditional artists in oil, acrylic and water color also use refs and even projectors to transfer base designs and work..But yes if you do use someone elses idea or image, doesn't hurt to credit that artist.
  10. basepaint

    basepaint Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    4,924
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    west virgina
    I try to give credit to the original artist if I know who it is,also if i find a picture on google or another search eng. I check and see if im aloud to use it by going to tools on the top of the page and check if its copyrighted or can be used as is or with mods done to it, hope this helps someone out on finding pictures they Don't have to worry about
    Ricky Spanish and jord001 like this.
  11. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Mod

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    11,234
    Likes Received:
    8,140
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Hampshire South Coast UK
    As I'm a drooling computer idiot @basepaint, exactly how do you do that? I just gave it a try and couldn't find anything in tools. Then again I probably don't know what I'm looking for lol. I really am pretty thick when it comes to that thar tek-know-ledge-eeee.
    jord001 likes this.
  12. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,228
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Birmingham UK
    I have been scouring the net myself, i have a picture of a patent for William Harley's Bike, its public domain i believe and can be used for anything. I am currently trying to get a small printing business up and running and i would like to print it on tshirts. My quandry is how do I say its Harley Davidsons patent without breaking copyright? I obviously wouldn't use their logo or font but i have seen it as a picture in a frame with Harley Davidson on it although it wasn't their font or logo and thought theres got to be a way. Any thoughts?

    Lee
  13. basepaint

    basepaint Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    4,924
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    west virgina
    Sometimes its under filters too squishy (google search eng)
  14. Truestory242

    Truestory242 Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    16
    This is a tough one for me. Most of the things I paint are pop culture and fan art related. Every year I attend the Chicago Comics and Entertainment Expo and I see all sorts of pop culture are for sale including Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel and DC comics and Video game properties. What's the line? Did they all get permission from the corporations that own these properties or does it fall into a parody category? If I try to sell my Star Wars or Lord of the Rings artwork, am I breaking the law?
  15. RebelAir

    RebelAir Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,925
    Likes Received:
    2,181
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Victoria Australia
    Fan based artwork gets a bit tricky, in reality most high end company's and shows want fan art, fan stories etc but in many cases that fan art is a continuation say of a story, unique characters the fans designed themselves to fit within that universe..In essence its more advertising for their brand but its not like the artist likely is taking a still from a film and painting it exactly as seen or more commonly, movie art posters and the like that are designed by other artists so really shldnt be copied..Not in that arena anyway and not for sale on large quantity, though if its a one off, likely no-one or company or other artist wld bother you for painting it, we see copies here and all over FB daily and I havent heard of too many being sued.. I think you'll find most of those doing cartoon novels and the like based on such a movie that needs to use original characters in the story line have some kind of permission or agreement to use those brands or well known characters, especially if its something you cld make a decent profit from as they will want a bit of that :)..Don't think parody wld cover certain image use...It really comes down to one thing...money..If your making it off someone elses idea, they will want their percentage and if its NOT your idea..Then rightly so but as mentioned a few times..Copyright doesn't really touch the casual artists just painting for their own amusement, fun or to sell a work here or there to a neighbour or friend or friends friend..Stand at a market all day though and try to sell TShirts all day with Mickey Mouse painted on it or yoda's all day..I'll guarantee by the end of the day there is a really good chance a rep will show up and ask you to stop, seen it happen a few times to chinese print Tshirt stalls in Australia, they have secret agents everywhere LOL..They just go to a different market though and keep selling, most companies know there is no point chasing an artist or reg joe for money, another company yes, the worst they will enforce on most artists is a cease and desist notice..if ya get one of those...Stop LOL..Otherwise paint what ya want to :)
  16. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Mod

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    11,234
    Likes Received:
    8,140
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Hampshire South Coast UK
    My daughter just came back from the Star Wars Con in Florida, and it was full of fan made items, and businesses selling replica armour, light sabres, jewellery, cosplay items etc. It was an official event, with all the stars present, yet these supposedly unofficial products were freely available. There was even a competition for best costume - which included items bought from replica suppliers, and included a friend of my daughters who is starting a company making helmets and armour used in some of the video games. I guess some of the major companies make so much money that they can't be bothered to argue with every single person who might profit in a small way. And it fuels the brand having all the super fans so invested. But if they wanted to persue it - they could.

    On facebook the other day, I noticed the artist John Howe (Lord of the rings artist, responsible for many iconic images as well as working on the films) was flagging up etsy shops and other small sellers for printing canvases of his work and selling them. He had contacted the companies (i.e etsy) and asked them to close the shops, and if I remember rightly was considering cease and desist orders. So I guess responses to breach of copywrite vary, and you just have to consider whether you feel comfortable with what you are doing.
  17. Truestory242

    Truestory242 Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    16
    In looking into this issue, I'm starting to see a distinction between taking images from a property and using them in your own composition and crafting and taking specific images from the property and directly copying them. It's the difference between my painting of Princess Leia based off of a screen capture from the movie and just printing that screen cap and selling it.

    However, logos might be a different issue.
  18. RebelAir

    RebelAir Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,925
    Likes Received:
    2,181
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Victoria Australia
    Theres no real difference, oh but there is LOL..If say you painted Leia from a screen capture or your own memory of her and its easily recognizable as to whom that is it is covered by that company's copyright, they control and own all the idea's essentially, the way even her hair may be styled because its is soooooo recognizable. if it was a copy of some lower character, who would care but likely then who would buy it LOL....But..If you sold that painting..no-one would care LOL..If you did nuthing but paint that same picture over and over because you found everyone wanted one..Thats copyright infringement they will care about..The difference is but one thing, ot so much the law but the Money. Both though are essentially not allowed and infringe copyright, even the old 10-15% rule is practically gone, if say they decided to go into comiccom and take away everyones products that had not been allowed in some fashion through agreement or some kind of free use which still does exist in some aspects..They could, in the Leia example, anything potentially set in a Universe and linked to Star Wars would require permission, heck if an artists paints a logo or say a star wars poster, you will find unlike the norm, he's/her contract would specifically state that ownership of that image becomes the studios and is no longer the artists right to claim copyright on that piece, its characters or any logos and such involved..If they wanted to sue you for that one picture you did 20 years ago...They can LOL..The point is, they wont in most cases bother small time artists, even if they are making a few bucks because its simply bad advertising chasing the average joe but it does and can happen, its mainly those they know who are worth chasing that they do so...printing though is a complete different subject LOL

Share This Page