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Crystal fx and water based paint

Discussion in 'General Airbrush Discussion' started by madmax500000, Oct 10, 2017 at 2:43 AM.


  1. madmax500000

    madmax500000 Young Tutorling

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    I'm using wicked paint and would like to try the crystal/ ice effect. But not sure if any are compatible with water based paint. Tried doing some research but have not found anything about it being safe on water based paint. I mostly paint welding hoods and hard hats.

    Please and thank you in advance.
  2. madmax500000

    madmax500000 Young Tutorling

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  3. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    I've not seen it done using water based paints, only done with urethane / solvents usually due to the application although i cant see why it couldnt be done as long as the basecoat was dry and cured. One way to find out is to have a go.

    Lee
  4. Vladimir

    Vladimir Mac-Valve Maestro!

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    Those crystals appear when water's evaporated from the solution. If you're going to use waterbased paint it will just destroy them.
    The trick works with solvent based urethanes.
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  5. musicmacd

    musicmacd Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Also you have to run the crystals off with water quite hard too! It's looks good though :)
    I have used them but no good with water based paint
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  6. madmax500000

    madmax500000 Young Tutorling

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    What if you use createx 4030 intercostal clear between the base and crystals and then mix with your highlight coat that goes over the crystals. Wouldn't that in theory protect it from the water.
  7. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Admin

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    No that is still a water based item . Bottom line is some effect are still urethane only effects , While Createx is working hard on making new items it is all about demand. The Crystal effect is costly to do and even harder to sell to a customer willing to pay for it . So the demand is low. While Candy paint jobs are still in high demand.
    I am not saying they will never come out with something for crystals effect I just do not see it happening soon.
    Now that being said You can base coat it with water base , Urethane Clear and let cure , Then scuff , crystal effect clear again candy over that and clear again . But doing all that you may as well just go all urethane.
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  8. Vladimir

    Vladimir Mac-Valve Maestro!

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    Here's some instructions from which you can understand how it works. The info is from the site of one of the producers of the "magical" solution (as I remember). I don't remember where I got this info to be true, but it looks like from the producer's site:) I have it on my HDD.
    So:

    Ice crystals effect
    Application:

    Prepare and paint the surface with your choice of our Base colours. This base colour will become the colour that shows as the lines through the crystals.
    Apply the ICE Fx™ in a lighter coat for small crystals and a wet or heavy coat to achieve the large crystal effect across the surface.
    ICE Fx™ will achieve full crystallization usually within 10 - 20 minutes at an average temp of 20° - 25°C. Wait for complete forming of crystals on the entire area you are working.
    By applying heat you can force the crystals to dry quickly, this will result in a Small tight woven crystals. While allowing them to air dry will produce Larger spaced crystals.
    Once dry, Now apply your contrasting color (the color that will be shown through the spaces in the crystals). Apply this coat in a light dusting action. Note: Take care to apply only a light coats as a wet coat of paint will make it harder to remove the crystals.
    Using lots of warm water and a rag or sponge, scrub off the crystals. This will leave you with a very pronounced crystal design.
    Allow any excess water to dry.
    Apply Deception Clearcoat for a Real Deep Gloss


    I can say that in reality the effect is not that expensive (I'd say cheap one) when you know what chemical in those magical solutions:)
    I think I'll post a thread for it, if certainly someone will be the first to do that before me;) From my side it will not happen soon though. It's rather cold here for making the experiments with SBS photos outdoors and I don't want doing it indoors.
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  9. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Spider Splatterer

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    I havent tried this so this is just research but

    https://dna-paints.com/mutant-crystalz/
    According to this , this brand works over any basecoat including water bases.

    From the MSDS's

    Crystal fx:
    Water, Urea, Neocryl BT-175, Aqua Ammonia.

    DNA mutant crystalz:
    Water, Urea, Isopropanol

    So, Just an educated guess, The aqua ammonia dissolves a lot of water based paints.

    Still, No way you can use a water based topcoat on either, since the crystals are formed by urea , which is water soluble.


    ( Makes me want to experiment to see if you could get the same effect using something like say salicylic acid which would make it a compatible with water base topcoat. )
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  10. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Spider Splatterer

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    Well, I was wrong about the water based topcoat. According to the DNA site their product can also use any contrasting color. It just has to be dusted on and never wet. Makes sense too. Seems like it would require some trial and error to build the skill to do it without scrubbing off your water based contrast color completely though.

    So anyhow, mutant DNA brand should work.

    Otherwise I think Mr. Micron Is dead on when it comes to the crystal fx brand and the 4030. Just a guess though on my part when it comes to that.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017 at 8:07 PM
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  11. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    I have some urea crystals, brought them a while back to attempt to make the crystal fx liquid but never got round to it. So vlad if you know the mixtures, i have ipa and urea crystals if theres anything else i will have a go at making some.
  12. Vladimir

    Vladimir Mac-Valve Maestro!

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    So you've all got it already, no need for a thread;)

    I only know that urea is needed. The crystals depend on how much urea is in the solution and how wet coat of the solution is applied. As I remember the wetter the coat - the bigger the crystals. So it's for the experiments. I think, maybe some tricks might be achieved while those experiments:)

    I've seen the results using only urea and wouldn't say the crystal pattern is something different from the pattern from using expensive solutions. Man used urethanes. I use urethanes, so I need no brain exploding with waterbased:)
    The process is rather simple. Actually, it's all described in manual to the "Ice crystals effect".
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  13. musicmacd

    musicmacd Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    I have the Mutant crystals so I will try it
  14. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Spider Splatterer

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    Ill be interested to know the results on this.

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