Different reducers,ratios and scratch/erase

[Lt4-396]

After some reading a bunch of threads it seems to be that the createx 4010 reducer is better for scratch/erase techniques then the 4012 HP reducer, because it drys slower is this true?

Regarding ratios it feels the more reduced a paint the harder it is to scratch/erase, is this true as well?
If so how do you very fine detail people out their spray super reduced paint at low psi and are still able to scratch or erase?

I'm currently working on gesso and have not had any luck with scratching but erasing is easy and seems to get better results with paint that isn't heavily reduced.

Is gesso scratch able? If yes what am I doing wrong, I'm using a #10 and #11 blade that's brand new and very light pressure. It Either Digs into the gesso or doesnt take the paint off...
If no, what is a good substrate to scratch and preferably scratch/erase?

I'm using createx illustration reduced to 1 paint to 5 reducer (4012) shooting threw a .2 .

 

[Squishy]

I use 4012, and you can scratch and erase with it, but the surface has a big part to play. The less absorbent, the more the paint sits on top and can be easily scratched, but erasing takes off everything. Too absorbent and the paint soaks in and is hard to remove at all. I have found claybord to be a good compromise, and others have success with synthetic papers.

Making sure your blades are sharp and changed frequently also helps.

 

[Vladimir]

The more reduced paint the better it's been erased. The more reducer is in paint the less binding agent which sticks pigment to a surface you have, thus erasing is easy.

Gesso must be sanded smooth and after that it should be great surface to work on. But maybe there are different types of gesso and some of them create an absorbent surface (as Squishy said) so wouldn't work well for scratching and erasing.
I apply gesso on the canvas and after drying sand that. It works great for me.

 

[markjthomson]

Clay board is by far the best substrate I've ever used for scratching, followed by gesso or a synthetic paper. Practice and subtlety is the approach. An eraser and a fiberglass pencil are also well worth the money.

 

[Lt4-396]

Yes I have the pink and white eraser and a 2mm fiberglass one.

It's liquidtex gesso 6 coats and sanded perfectly smooth. I have seen "hard sandable gesso" but I'm unsure if mine is soft/hard or how absorbing it is.
Maybe I'll try applying a cost of varnish and see how that works.

I'm going to be making my own clayboard this weekend so I'll see how that works. It's so expensive to buy but is so cheap to make your own with rabbit skin glue and kaolin clay.

When you buy clayboard Is it already white or is it that orange clay color?
Im going to be using white kaolin clay powder so the board is already white.

I read somewhere on here that the more you reduce the paint the more it absorbs into your substrate making it difficult to scratch/erase?
So is that not true?

Maybe it's my mind playing games but I seemed to get better results with less reduced paint.

 

[markjthomson]

On the reduction, it depends on the substrate. Clay board it doesn't soak in, paper it does so for any given substrate that is reasonable to assume. Some just don't soak in though like synthetic papers, clayboard and gesso! Also different paints respond better or worse than others on different substrates. For example, Schminke does like erasing at all on yupo but is OK on Blair paper. scratches fine on both... *sigh*...

 

[Lt4-396]

I keep hearing good things about yupo.
I can get 10 pages 9x12 #74 yupo paper for $1.30 per page which sounds like a good price, hopefully I will like the yupo.

 

[JackEb]

ampersand claybord is off-white, I find scratching needs a real delicate touch to avoid gouging the board and making it a mess. it erases beautifully with a delicate hand
Synthetic paper is something you either love or hate. It has all the properties of a hard surface, to high a pressure and spidering becomes an issue. Scratching and erasing is easy, to easy for some.
I have managed to source a synthetic paper here in Australia that is neither Dru or Yupo, the only down side is that it is thin so it needs to be put in a frame, it wont stand up on its own like Dru or yupo

 

[AndreZA]

I've experienced that the more you reduce the paint, the less it wants to erase and scratch. That is because the paint is thinner and it gets absorbed into the fibres and gesso. You want the paint to sit on top of the surface. That is why you get such crisp lines on non-absorbent surfaces.

 

[Lt4-396]

OK thank you for confirming that andreza.

I'm looking into getting a electric eraser but I'm unsure on which to get. Ive read here that there are different eraser tips but can't find them anywhere. (Grey,white soft/hard etc)

 

[AndreZA]

OK thank you for confirming that andreza.

I'm looking into getting a electric eraser but I'm unsure on which to get. Ive read here that there are different eraser tips but can't find them anywhere. (Grey,white soft/hard etc)

You only get the different tips for the 4mm machines like the Style-up (Foxystudio.com) and the old Helix. The Derwent, Jakar, Sakura, new Helix, and other no name brands all use 5mm refills.

 

[Vladimir]

Forgotten to mention that I use urethanes only. If not to reduce them, they will not even go through an airbrush And if not to reduce them real well, it's better to forget about erasing as the paint sticks to the surface really well especially when used on acrylic based gesso.
I think "not much reducing" concerns only airbrush paints that go in different appearance compared to automotive urethanes. And the surface the paint is applied on means much.

Concerning erasers. I find those from Foxy to be good. Erasing tips are smaller than Derwent's, it's a good feature. What type of hard/soft tip you will need you'll decide yourself. Buy both and choose.

 

[Big John 1945]

Also when scratching work in really small areas like 2" x 2" your paint remains "wetter"

 

[Lt4-396]

I tried some "posterboard" that has a surface like photo paper. It was decent for scratch but horrible for erasing.
This youtube video shows erasing with such a soft touch, anyone know the substrate being used.
http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/fur-technique-erasing-method.8512/

Maybe it's something I'm doing but the Strathmore 300 series vellum and smooth didn't work, posterboard worked but you needed a very thick coat of paint and it would just remove down to white so it was basically useless. Gesso I can sort of erase but it's difficult and when scratching it's either to light of touch or I gouge the gesso.

Hopefully the clay board with be somewhat better. I will be getting the yup on Sunday so I will try that as well.

 

[Squishy]

Visual realm uses posterboard. Maybe it's a different type to the one you tried?

 

[Big John 1945]

Looking at that video I would guess that the paper is synthetic. He is working in small areas and is using a pink erasure. I prefer an aggresive erasure (white) and you can create some sharp lines of fur. When you use a blade, you cannot hold it like a pencil or you will just gouge whatever substrait you are working on. You hold the handle between the thumb and all four fingers with the blade faceing on a 45 degree angle away from your stroke. Still no luck? try a #10 rounded blade instead of the #11 pointed. Some people have a lot of luck with a 2mm fiberpen. You can also use a oak dowel sharpened like a pencil or how about a toothpick?

 

[Big John 1945]

Another helpful video is The Airbrush Academy guide to airbrushing fur.

 

[jord001]

I watched this video from Mick the other day, its very good. Might even give it a try myself when i get 10 mins spare.

Lee

 

[Lt4-396]

I was using a #10 curved blade. Even with the white eraser it seems to not erase and when it does I'm pressing so hard it damages the gesso/poster board.
If I can't seem to get it with the clayboard or yupo I will take a video so you all can guide me on the proper way.

I am really surprised more people don't DIY the clayboard. Everything ive read seems to say it's much better then gesso and is cheaper than gesso and is applied just like gesso.