Golden High Flow, why wont it work

[Mr.Micron]

I usually blame me too but when I can get a reasonable result with anything other than E'tac and the Createx versions that I've actually bothered to try then I think that entitles me to put at least a little of the blame onto the paint itself, I have heard others mention the stickiness of E'tac so that part is definitely not in my head nor is the ridiculous tip dry I have encountered with both standard createx and Illustration, simply because I now avoid using any of these now I'm starting to claw back some the two years plus I wasted trying these out and make a little progress, and when I think of the money I've wasted in all that time, not just on paints, but on other materials including brushes too, I think that gives me the right to state that I personally find that crap, there really is something wrong when the most expensive of all the items I tried did nothing but hold me back and frustrate me, I reckon that would sicken just about anyone, is it any wonder now that every time I see the phrase "you really need to get that one because it is the best that was ever made" my head automatically says "SPONSORED"

I wouldn't recommend anyone at all to go out buy loads of Golden paints and mediums just because it works for me and doesn't give me any grief because if they did that and it didn't work I would be to blame, I am simply stating that Golden works fine for me in my circumstances because I shake the bottle and strain the paint before I even start to spray, and even neat it flies through my Eclipse at a measly 15 psi, I couldn't guarantee that will happen for everyone.

Mitch is about to show what can be done with the cheapest of tools by doing a project with a master airbrush, and I am confident he is going to rock it, but there won't be a clueless idiot behind that brush which is what happened to me, put a high end precision tool four times the cost of the brush I have now in the hands of an idiot like me and I will show just how bad a micron can perform in the right, isn't it strange to think that the only successes I have ever had or those works I had the most fun with were all done with a very similar brush to what Mitch is going to test, I can't attribute any success at all to E'tac, Schoelershammer or Micron's and these items may very well be fine, but not for me

Fair enough . Yes nothing beat practice and learning one paint system . Now you might have to try a few out to find one that fits you but it is out there
So far golden high Flow has not given me any trouble , I can get it at a locally owned mom and pop art supply shop and while it cost just a bit more then Wicked the colors are great. Still figuring out they Payne's Gray compared to everyone else but it does have a cool vibe to it.
Plus I do look forward to seeing Mitch's video on the Master G22

 

[Malky]

Fair enough . Yes nothing beat practice and learning one paint system . Now you might have to try a few out to find one that fits you but it is out there
So far golden high Flow has not given me any trouble , I can get it at a locally owned mom and pop art supply shop and while it cost just a bit more then Wicked the colors are great. Still figuring out they Payne's Gray compared to everyone else but it does have a cool vibe to it.
Plus I do look forward to seeing Mitch's video on the Master G22

Golden is actually one the cheapest here in Holland and I can get it at a shop just 20 minutes away from me, no problems here with it either, I love how easy it is to use and it seems to erase well even on the paper, I finish work tomorrow very early so I plan to go to the shop to pick up some of the medium which I'm running out of.

I just checked the link from @JPulliam and from what I can see there just like the newer High flow paints, the mediums have also changed since the trans medium there is now referred to as "Golden airbrush transparent extender" so clearly the trans medium Andre referred to was a medium intended for non airbrush paints which obviously makes sense

Although I don't intend to stop using the Golden I want to try out some Schminke again since @Micha der Wolf seems able to erase very well with it on the Schoelershammer paper that I have, if that goes good I can at least use that paper up although it is actually ideal for my drawings which I will be doing a lot more of after paint pals

 

[markjthomson]

I asked Golden Paints if their transparent base and airbrush mediums are the same and they said definitely not. Airbrush will block really fast if you push transparent base through it.

No they aren't the same thing. I use the trans base all the time, no issues. As I understand it the medium is the same base material they add the pigment too. The trans base (or extender) is suitable for turning opaques to trans and works also as a reducer for the trans paints.

 

[Arron]

Can one of you guys clarify is the thing you refer to as 'trans' or 'trans base' in fact Golden Airbrush Transparent Extender ?

cheers
Arron

 

[markjthomson]

Can one of you guys clarify is the thing you refer to as 'trans' or 'trans base' in fact Golden Airbrush Transparent Extender ?

cheers
Arron

For me yes that is exactly what I'm referring too.

 

[AndreZA]

From their website

Airbrush Medium modifies GOLDEN Fluid Acrylics for spray application by reducing clogging and tip buildup during spraying. Recommended for spraying on garments, Airbrush Medium may also be used to thin other products for spraying such as Iridescent/Interference Acrylics and Gesso. NOTE: Airbrush Medium is NOT designed to mix with High Flow Acrylics (Use Airbrush Transparent Extender). (Item # 3535)
For more information on GOLDEN Airbrush Medium, see the Airbrush Medium Product Information & Application Sheet.


Airbrush Transparent Extender increases the transparency and film hardness of High Flow Acrylics. May be mixed in any ratio desired, for precise control of transparency. (Item # 3537) For more information on GOLDEN Airbrush Medium, see the Airbrush Medium Product Information & Application Sheet.

 

[markjthomson]

Well there you have it... someone forgot to tell my medium not to play nicely with my high flow... it seems to work ok.

 

[markjthomson]

Actually that is very useful because they have a greater colour range in the straight acrylic! Yay - I'm gonna go get me some to try as I've got lots of airbrush medium!

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

Crap why didn't I see this before. I guess I may be returning some paint. This is the same issue I had with CIP. At least I didn't open any.


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[markjthomson]

Crap why didn't I see this before. I guess I may be returning some paint. This is the same issue I had with CIP. At least I didn't open any.


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Ah, just swap the airbrush medium for trans base I suspect... Golden is a good paint.

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

On the airbrush medium it says to reduce tip dry and clogging.

 

[markjthomson]

Yes, read what Andre put further up - I didn't know this either, the medium is for taking the golden acrylic and making it suitable for airbrush and not designed for use with high flow. The transparent medium is for the high flow. To be honest, I reduce with water and normally only use the trans base with the opaques if I want it more transparent in nature.

 

[basepaint]

I too use golden and just reduce it with water,and if I'm getting a lot of tip dry I add a little bit of extender to keep it from drying so fast

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

I was thinking as I did my morning workout. Are we missing something in all of this. if viscosity is affected by environmental conditions, is some of this paint flow attributed to the conditions where we live. IE my Createx paint flow, Andre's paint flow Malky's tacky Etac. What I am saying is what elevation do you live at? Is it a humid or dry climate? the best person I know to ask these Questions is Bill Edwards. He is a super brilliant chemist. I have used EtacFX and have never had an issue with tackiness and I know Dru B can't stand them because he said they are too fragile. Food For Thought. because of all this I begin to wonder if my purchase of Golden has been a mistake. I am half tempted to go buy a small bottle and spray that to see if I have an issue. And Malky I know you said this and the only reason I didn't is because of gas to go to the store twice, so I was listening. LOL

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

Yes, read what Andre put further up - I didn't know this either, the medium is for taking the golden acrylic and making it suitable for airbrush and not designed for use with high flow. The transparent medium is for the high flow. To be honest, I reduce with water and normally only use the trans base with the opaques if I want it more transparent in nature.

I will have to exchange the airbrush medium for the transparent medium.


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[Malky]

On the airbrush medium it says to reduce tip dry and clogging.

Yes, read what Andre put further up - I didn't know this either, the medium is for taking the golden acrylic and making it suitable for airbrush and not designed for use with high flow. The transparent medium is for the high flow. To be honest, I reduce with water and normally only use the trans base with the opaques if I want it more transparent in nature.

I will have to exchange the airbrush medium for the transparent medium.


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After Andre's comment I checked the bottle of medium I have and saw that it was the very stuff he was talking about, it actually does state on the bottle "Not to be be mixed with Golden airbrush acrylics" so my apologies @AndreZA although I didn't doubt your comment entirely, I thought it was strange that like Mark I had no problem by doing what the bottle said not to do, but I can only assume that the amount of paint I'm using in that medium isn't enough to cause a problem and the fact that half of the mix is water maybe also contributes to the lack of problems, but the good news is in light of your explanation I have since hunted down and ordered the correct Golden airbrush transparent extender and since I now have half an idea what the first medium was actually for I shall keep it in case I find non airbrush specific acrylic colours from Golden that might be nicer than the standard airbrush ones, luckily the shop in Rotterdam where I pick up my Golden stuff sell everything Golden, they even Sell Golden screen printing inks and mediums which to be honest I didn't even know existed

Fred, I did mention the correct medium elsewhere but maybe you noticed like I did that all the Golden bottles containing mediums all look pretty much the same so a quick glance at the bottle just isn't enough, I've learned the hard way that reading the bottle (twice if need be) is very wise indeed, and about 50% of Holland believe it or not is actually just under mean sea level, in fact if we didn't have all the windmills here we would actually have to swim to the shops, so it could well be that is permanently humid here, although since there are many of my Dutch buddies also using E'tac without issue I can only assume that the issues I have are down to how I use it, but that doesn't change the fact that if it can't do what I need it to do, it is useless to me, I can't believe you went straight out and bought so much Golden at once after I suggested one small bottle to try out, I get the gas thing but I would gladly have sent you a small bottle rather than risk you throwing money at something you might not even like, so I hope you do like them and Fred, I'm very curious as to what your possible solution is to the CI issue, please do tell

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

After Andre's comment I checked the bottle of medium I have and saw that it was the very stuff he was talking about, it actually does state on the bottle "Not to be be mixed with Golden airbrush acrylics" so my apologies @AndreZA although I didn't doubt your comment entirely, I thought it was strange that like Mark I had no problem by doing what the bottle said not to do, but I can only assume that the amount of paint I'm using in that medium isn't enough to cause a problem and the fact that half of the mix is water maybe also contributes to the lack of problems, but the good news is in light of your explanation I have since hunted down and ordered the correct Golden airbrush transparent extender and since I now have half an idea what the first medium was actually for I shall keep it in case I find non airbrush specific acrylic colours from Golden that might be nicer than the standard airbrush ones, luckily the shop in Rotterdam where I pick up my Golden stuff sell everything Golden, they even Sell Golden screen printing inks and mediums which to be honest I didn't even know existed

Fred, I did mention the correct medium elsewhere but maybe you noticed like I did that all the Golden bottles containing mediums all look pretty much the same so a quick glance at the bottle just isn't enough, I've learned the hard way that reading the bottle (twice if need be) is very wise indeed, and about 50% of Holland believe it or not is actually just under mean sea level, in fact if we didn't have all the windmills here we would actually have to swim to the shops, so it could well be that is permanently humid here, although since there are many of my Dutch buddies also using E'tac without issue I can only assume that the issues I have are down to how I use it, but that doesn't change the fact that if it can't do what I need it to do, it is useless to me, I can't believe you went straight out and bought so much Golden at once after I suggested one small bottle to try out, I get the gas thing but I would gladly have sent you a small bottle rather than risk you throwing money at something you might not even like, so I hope you do like them and Fred, I'm very curious as to what your possible solution is to the CI issue, please do tell

Mitch said that by adding transparent base by Createx illustration Paint to it helps a lot. I was just adding reducer. This got me thinking. What actually is happening inside the cone and on the needle. And all I can figure is the surface tension of the pigments and clinging to the surfaces and starting to build. The end result is a clog and tip dry. So logically by adding transparent base you reduce the surface tension of the pigment molecule because there is more of the base surrounding it. Where as reducer will cause the viscosity of the paint and causes it to dry faster because of the alcohol in the reducer. But the pigment still retains the same surface tension. Makes sense to me.

As for the Golden I might go down the road and pick up a 1 ounce bottle and only open that. That way if it doesn't flow good for me I'll return the others before opening.


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[Malky]

Mitch said that by adding transparent base by Createx illustration Paint to it helps a lot. I was just adding reducer. This got me thinking. What actually is happening inside the cone and on the needle. And all I can figure is the surface tension of the pigments and clinging to the surfaces and starting to build. The end result is a clog and tip dry. So logically by adding transparent base you reduce the surface tension of the pigment molecule because there is more of the base surrounding it. Where as reducer will cause the viscosity of the paint and causes it to dry faster because of the alcohol in the reducer. But the pigment still retains the same surface tension. Makes sense to me.

As for the Golden I might go down the road and pick up a 1 ounce bottle and only open that. That way if it doesn't flow good for me I'll return the others before opening.


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That makes very good sense to me, it's better to lose the cost of a little gas than the cost of a shed load of paint

As for the CI, the little bit that I tried also had the transparent medium in it but it didn't rock my boat, having said that I can'r remember if I had the reducer in it too, I avoided using the reducer when I could because I could instantly feel it on my lungs as I do with some cleaners

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

Just got off the phone with Golden. They are right here in NY about 2 hours from me. Their expert on airbrushing said that if having trouble with tip dry to use Airbrush Medium

they said there is no retarder in the trans base medium so it won't take away tip dry or clogging. She said to start with only 10% per volume because it is strong and keep adding up to a 1 to 1 mix otherwise it will not dry. She said the trans base medium is only to extend the base to make the paint more transparent. This the same idea I was saying about the CIP that Mitch said was to add the trans base from their system not the reducer. You need to be careful to understand that each paint systems use these names differently. One will say trans base like Createx and the other will use medium like Golden and Etac will use FX extender which they just changed the name of that.


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[Malky]

Just got off the phone with Golden. They are right here in NY about 2 hours from me. Their expert on airbrushing said that if having trouble with tip dry to use Airbrush Medium

they said there is no retarder in the trans base medium so it won't take away tip dry or clogging. She said to start with only 10% per volume because it is strong and keep adding up to a 1 to 1 mix otherwise it will not dry. She said the trans base medium is only to extend the base to make the paint more transparent. This the same idea I was saying about the CIP that Mitch said was to add the trans base from their system not the reducer. You need to be careful to understand that each paint systems use these names differently. One will say trans base like Createx and the other will use medium like Golden and Etac will use FX extender which they just changed the name of that.


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Well that's exactly the same stuff I was using up until now, so now I would assume that the warning on the back maybe referred to the old Golden colours or paints, I have really had no problems at all using this, even the guy who first sold it to me in the shop recommended it to me, he even said that most golden mediums are compatible with other brand acrylics, having said that he also told me the fake parts he sold me for my HP- BH were not fake at all