GSI Procon boy 267 or 270

[mike k]

I have the ps 770, iwata cm sb, harder and steenbeck evolution cr plus with .15mm, and i will say the 770 is in fact a micron, you can get splendid detail while getting coverage, because the the taper of the needle and nozzle is different, the cm sb needle sticks out more, I feel the ps 770 and the .15mm harder and steenbeck is a better comparison in my opinion, I been ha ring the ps 770, before it got here to the USA, I feel when it comes done to microns it's either u side feeds then the cm sb is perfect, but if you prefer gravity feeds then the ps 770 is most definitely a steal, the head fit a on iwata as well, definitely worth every penny, I feel that you can neglect the iwata and harder and steenbeck more then the 770, meaning that you can spank the cra out of them, clean them up and they will keep on eating the paint, the 770 needs some love, this is just my opinion

 

[Robbyrockett2]

I have the ps 770, iwata cm sb, harder and steenbeck evolution cr plus with .15mm, and i will say the 770 is in fact a micron, you can get splendid detail while getting coverage, because the the taper of the needle and nozzle is different, the cm sb needle sticks out more, I feel the ps 770 and the .15mm harder and steenbeck is a better comparison in my opinion, I been ha ring the ps 770, before it got here to the USA, I feel when it comes done to microns it's either u side feeds then the cm sb is perfect, but if you prefer gravity feeds then the ps 770 is most definitely a steal, the head fit a on iwata as well, definitely worth every penny, I feel that you can neglect the iwata and harder and steenbeck more then the 770, meaning that you can spank the cra out of them, clean them up and they will keep on eating the paint, the 770 needs some love, this is just my opinion

Thank you, that is very good information! Have you had an opportunity to compare any of the other parts for interchangeability, besides the head?

 

[Robbyrockett2]

The 770 appears to have a needle packing more like that of an hp series and the needle chuck and rocker are mated
Can the 770 use the cm-sb needle and nozzle?

 

[DaveG]

I will have some test results complete with photo comparisons including the PS770 parts along with Iwata, and Olympos parts. Just need some time to sort my way through the data I am collecting. I would not replace a PS770 Nozzle and Needle with equivalent Iwata pieces, simply because I do not believe you would be able to detect a difference in performance equivalent to the price difference in parts - out of a PS770 head. Not sure about other brand heads and mixing and matching parts just yet - still working on that part of it.

 

[Robbyrockett2]

I will have some test results complete with photo comparisons including the PS770 parts along with Iwata, and Olympos parts. Just need some time to sort my way through the data I am collecting. I would not replace a PS770 Nozzle and Needle with equivalent Iwata pieces, simply because I do not believe you would be able to detect a difference in performance equivalent to the price difference in parts - out of a PS770 head. Not sure about other brand heads and mixing and matching parts just yet - still working on that part of it.

I'm more just trying to work out the interchanges just because of the availability of Iwata parts Often even locally in a pinch. But heck yeah Dave, I'm looking forward to everything you come up with!

 

[mike k]

Thank you, that is very good information! Have you had an opportunity to compare any of the other parts for interchangeability, besides the head?

Yes ps 770 and iwata seem to be interchangeable, but my l3 olympis head seems to have some issues spraying in both my iwata cm sb and ps 770, but I need to get an actual olympos model, I used all iwata .18mm and .23mm in the ps770, but to be honest iwata parts work best in the iwata and Mr procon boys parts work better in their burhses even if you can mix and match

 

[Robbyrockett2]

Awesome! thank you for that info! Trying to get all this info sorted. My intention right now is to get the ps-270 and try out the 770 head/needle/nozzle in it. I have a thing against cutaway handles on brushes where you have to remove the handle to pull the needle anyhow.
Then slowly build up interchange info on it.

 

[SiRoxx]

Interesting thread guys. All this info is gold to anyone wanting to get great value for money and perhaps can’t afford the higher end Iwata or H&S brushes.


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[DaveG]

Interesting thread guys. All this info is gold to anyone wanting to get great value for money and perhaps can’t afford the higher end Iwata or H&S brushes.


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"...All this info is gold" ... take it all with a grain of salt till more info is gathered, and there is more experience with the tools being discussed.

 

[SiRoxx]

"...All this info is gold" ... take it all with a grain of salt till more info is gathered, and there is more experience with the tools being discussed.

You are of course correct DaveG. My over enthusiasm gets the better of me yet again .


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[DaveG]

I'm adding a bit of information here to help clear things up - The first is the basics of a "Micron" head. The idea of the micron was that all the head pieces could be "matched", and tuned for optimal performance. They were originally marketed by Olympos in a deluxe case complete with a separate replacement head. The idea being that the nozzle/head pieces could be matched as a set, so that when changing them on the brush, there would be no change in performance that you might see by installing just a nozzle. So, the head system is a contained and complete unit - air enters the head system from the brush, and is then distributed through the head via the three hole system associated with a Micron. The first ones were single hole, but still, air entered a contained head unit and was then directed internally...


Because the head system directs air flow within, how it is delivered to the head becomes pretty irrelevant. I have more than a few clone or inexpensive import brushes that wear Iwata or Olympos heads that perform exactly they way a Micron would. The only difference may be the amount of air allowed to pass through the brush body based on port size, and thus one might have to adjust air pressure going in slightly - I have never noticed any issue here, though. If taken in their entirety, a Micron head system from an Iwata works just the same way it does on CM-Bv2 as it does on a Pointzero PZ408 because the airflow is controlled within the head. Same for an Olympos head - works the same on an Olympos brush, on a PZ brush, on a Master brush. There may be some personal preference differences with the trigger, or other ergonomics of the brush as a whole, but as long as air is being delivered to the back of the head system, it will atomize paint exactly the same way no matter what it is attached to. Provided the mounting base is the same, the same would hold true on the Procon brushes. This all assumes you are also using the matching, corresponding needle, of course.

There are certainly things that set the different brands apart - as can be seen in the nozzles below. Two look similar, one has a very different outside contour to it. They are all .18, and they are 3 different brands.


Same goes with needles - three brands, two different profiles in .18 -


Where the rubber meets the road, so to speak - it is the internal structures of the individual nozzle caps, in conjunction with nozzle profile that dictate how paint will be drawn from the needle. Again, three brands, some similarities, and some differences -


While differences may be minute, it should not be assumed that mixing and matching parts will yield performance on par with original spec parts, unless used as a complete unit. A complete head assembly with needle, will yield the results you would expect on anything it will fit correctly on. Changing any one individual part of the assembly could have you scratching your head...

 

[Robbyrockett2]

As a test for the base, I'm going to see if the PZ360 head will fit on the ps-270 first. Am I correct in assuming that If it does than the 770 or other micron style units would also fit? Or is there something I am not thinking of there? (disregarding the PZ360 thread o-ring of course)

 

[Robbyrockett2]

50722[/ATTACH] View attachment 50723

Same goes with needles - three brands, two different profiles in .18 -
View attachment 50724

Where the rubber meets the road, so to speak - it is the internal structures of the individual nozzle caps, in conjunction with nozzle profile that dictate how paint will be drawn from the needle. Again, three brands, some similarities, and some differences -
View attachment 50725

I'm going to play guess that part Just for fun......

Nozzles.... From vladimirs cleaning kit post I know Iwatas come with red goop. From spraygunners parts diagram there is also red goop so I'm going to guess that the oddball in this photo is The GSI part
But I'd also guess that daves micron nozzle might be the clean one so the oddball could actually be the olympos

Needles....
I've heard told that the olympos needles stick out more so im going to guess that the oddball here is the Olympos

Air caps...
A very quick glance at parts pics tells me that the one on the right is definitely not Iwata or GSI and there appears to be more serrations on the knurling on the GSI aircap than Iwata so I'm Going to guess the one in the middle is The GSI, Iwata on the left and Olympos on the right.

 

[DaveG]

you got the needle right, but that be about it... I will be filling in more info when I have more to share in a more complete way. I am learning a lot each day I work with the pieces - with more to come. Got word today that an order for parts is backordered for a week, so will have to wait to go much further.

 

[Robbyrockett2]

Eh it was a fun try without ever having had any of these parts in my hands.

 

[Robbyrockett2]

I should be getting my ps-270 and pz360 this week so i'll have a little info to add then.

 

[Robbyrockett2]

Oh I see, after looking at some olympos, all of the oddballs there are the olympos stuff..... but telling the difference between the GSI and Iwata there is beyond me.
Looks like the knurling is forward on the Iwata cap and rearward on the GSI but I can't see the difference in those pics if that is even the case.
Anyway I think I'm stalled on this until I start getting some parts in my hands.
When I do , If I'm impressed with the brush I may start making some best guesses and getting some other Iwata parts, Needle chucks and seals and stuff just to check fitments.

A 770 I am kind of doubting I'll ever get as a whole just because It doesnt have anything that interests me if all the "Working Parts" (head,needle ,nozzle) fit my 270.

As much as I'd like to, buying a whole 770 and then buying a bunch of micron parts to check fitments is probably more than I'm willing to invest even though I'm highly interested.

 

[DaveG]

I really have no idea why you would want to buy Iwata parts to put on a Procon... especially parts that have nothing to do with performance, just mechanical stuff. Not sure I get the thought process there . I could understand if Procon parts become unavailable, and there is no choice, but with Spraygunner basically shipping same day on an order, hmmm........ I have also had brushes for almost 30 years, and never had a need to replace parts, outside of the occasional needle or nozzle - mostly because of my own negligence . There are differences in the performance parts; nozzles, needles, etc - but, I would suggest only some quite experienced users would be able to actually tell the difference if using them blindly. Over the course of a few hours, or days, perhaps it would become more obvious.

On the brushes I have been working on swapping parts on, they are being done in an effort to improve performance. If I find no gain, the original parts will go back on.

If you simply want to "check fitment", while I do not have one here, I would gamble pretty heavily that most of the Iwata Micron CM-C+ parts would fit the PS770 and visa versa.

 

[SiRoxx]

I really have no idea why you would want to buy Iwata parts to put on a Procon... especially parts that have nothing to do with performance, just mechanical stuff. Not sure I get the thought process there . I could understand if Procon parts become unavailable, and there is no choice, but with Spraygunner basically shipping same day on an order, hmmm........ I have also had brushes for almost 30 years, and never had a need to replace parts, outside of the occasional needle or nozzle - mostly because of my own negligence . There are differences in the performance parts; nozzles, needles, etc - but, I would suggest only some quite experienced users would be able to actually tell the difference if using them blindly. Over the course of a few hours, or days, perhaps it would become more obvious.

On the brushes I have been working on swapping parts on, they are being done in an effort to improve performance. If I find no gain, the original parts will go back on.

If you simply want to "check fitment", while I do not have one here, I would gamble pretty heavily that most of the Iwata Micron CM-C+ parts would fit the PS770 and visa versa.

I think it’s about availability everywhere as much as anything. Spraygunner is a great site, but delivery to the UK is not great for one or two smaller items. Likewise I don’t see many suppliers of Procol spares here, but it may be easier to get Iwata. That’s what I’ve taken from it anyhow.


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[naveedgt]

I think it’s about availability everywhere as much as anything. Spraygunner is a great site, but delivery to the UK is not great for one or two smaller items. Likewise I don’t see many suppliers of Procol spares here, but it may be easier to get Iwata. That’s what I’ve taken from it anyhow.


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You can pick up Mr Hobby airbrushes and spare parts from air-craft.net here in the UK.