For Every Airbrush Artist!

Ready to get involved? Register for free and you won't see any google advertising!

Register

How do you make a very thin without it sticking out?

Discussion in 'How to Control an Airbrush' started by Lt4-396, Apr 11, 2017.


  1. Lt4-396

    Lt4-396 Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    NYC
    How do make a very fine pencil line without it standing out like a sore thumb?

    Everyone I try to do it you can see it like a did it with a sharpie, if I add more reducer/TRANS BASE then I get splatter even with lowering the psi.
  2. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA Quick Draw !! (and still very happy) Staff Member Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    6,086
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    Practice, low pressure and really reduced paint... build it up. The trans base should actually be the same viscosity as the paint itself.
  3. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Mod

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    11,691
    Likes Received:
    8,705
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Hampshire South Coast UK
    I'm afraid its all down to practice. But what do you mean by splatter? Do you have a photo? If you are getting spidering, the psi is too high, if grainy too low or paint too thick, or spitting and getting blotches a blocked or dirty nozzle. If the spray pattern is only affected in one area this is a sign too.

    Nozzle issues account for maybe 90% + of newbie issues, especially when you are figuring stuff out. Its frustrating because you think you've cleaned it. But nozzle cleaning is an art in itself, and an unbelievable amount can hide in there.

    Or it could be something else. Pics will help.
    mickolaus and musicmacd like this.
  4. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,438
    Likes Received:
    8,301
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    This was the single most frustrating thing when I started......"but I cleaned it" . . . clog clog, splutter....... I guess it needs more cleaning.
    mickolaus likes this.
  5. Lt4-396

    Lt4-396 Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    NYC
    Cleaning I have zero issues with. I use what you get wiyh garbage bags those little twist ties. I burn the plastic/paper off and use that tiny piece of metal to make sure the nozzle are clear.

    I will get some pics tomorrow.
    I also found that if I VERY slowly pull the trigger back until you can see the faintest line it almost skips and won't produce a solid line instead it's a bunch of dots. Instead of getting ----- I get . ... ... . .. I hope that makes sense.

    Currently use create opaque black with 1drop paint to 6drops Trans base to 6-8drops reducer.

    I'm waiting on my more accurate psi gauge so I can get a real reading but it's somewhere around 20-25.
    Using a .30 mil needle but have a .20 that I'm going to try this week.

    I have another question, I'm going to be doing the "cameron" picture this week and for example the hair on the first page (top left) if you have a piece of hair that is just black would you outline that area then "fill" it in like a coloring book or would you slowly fill it in until it's the size you want or its supposed to be?

    TIA
  6. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,438
    Likes Received:
    8,301
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    NO NO NO...... you will damage the nozzle

    remove the seals (if any) and soak the nozzle in createx restorer if you have some, or isopropyl alcohol, use a long bristle artist hairy brush to work inside the nozzle, repeat. rinse clean with water, reassemble and check the spray, if not as it should be then repeat the soak.

    which version of createx are you using ? "Createx airbrush colour" is designed for textiles / craft application not artwork. needs a .5 needle and around 50psi

    What airbrush are you using, with what size needle ?

    You should be using wicked/wicked detail / illustration for your artwork ( or one of the other brands designed for artwork. )

    when doing 'realistic' artwork you dont outline anything.

    watch the video before committing paint to paper. the hair is just a heap of daggers/lines in varying thicknesses and density of paint.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  7. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA Quick Draw !! (and still very happy) Staff Member Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    6,086
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    What @JackEb said. Using a transparent paint (instead of opaque and trans base) will help as well. Have you taken the air cap off the end of the brush when you are spraying? That will also make a finer line.
  8. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA Quick Draw !! (and still very happy) Staff Member Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    6,086
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    And the Cameron is all done with transparent black to allow for better control.
  9. Lt4-396

    Lt4-396 Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    NYC

    How could you possibly ruin the nozzle? The largest O.D of the wire is much smaller then the smallest I.D of the nozzle.

    Using a grex XGI .3 needle but will be testing out a .2.

    Using regular createx which I know is not as good as wicked detail or illustration but it's what I have now and I am just messing around/ practicing.
    That's why I'm using the Trans base until I can order better paint.

    Maybe I will post a wanted ad for any paint anyone wants to get rid for a decent price

    What is the difference between wicked detail, createx transparent and the illustration series? And what makes a paint an illustration paint?
    Is it pigment size or one is more transparent etc?
  10. Lt4-396

    Lt4-396 Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    NYC

    Yes I have taken the cap off and used the crown cap and also tried with no cap.

    I can get a line just slighty thicker than a pen line, I'm just unsure if that's a "fine" or detail line or if i should be able to pull a thinner line. Anything smaller then that and I get the inconsistent line.
    markjthomson likes this.
  11. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA Quick Draw !! (and still very happy) Staff Member Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    6,086
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    How could you possibly ruin a nozzle... keep cleaning it with wire like that and you will find out. Don't say you weren't warned... :)

    Regular Createx is designed for fabrics and is a larger pigment, designed for a larger needle/nozzle set. "Createx Airbrush Colors work best out of the bottle with a 0.5mm tip-sized airbrush operated @ 40 � 50 PSI. For smaller tip-sizes, lower PSI settings and fine-line detailed artwork, reduce with Createx 5601 Transparent Base." That could also be part of your problem. It is possible but not the best.

    I would recommend E'Tac, Createx Illustration, Schminke, Golden High Flow, com-art would do a lot better job and be a lot better to use.
  12. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA Quick Draw !! (and still very happy) Staff Member Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    6,086
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    Yup, that should be OK with a 0.3 using createx. Depending on the size of the Cameron portrait you are doing you won't need anything that fine.
  13. Lt4-396

    Lt4-396 Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    NYC
    I'm not trying to be a jerk but I'm curious how could I possibly ruin the nozzle. I remove the needle and take the fluid tip off let it soak in some cleaner and very gently run the wire threw it and put it back on. The tip has the needle constantly on it. I'm sure they are machined to match each other with hopefully a tight clearance (+/-.0005) but at the end of the day it's just a hole made from I believe S.S I don't see how that will ruin it.
    If I'm wrong please correct me.

    Has anyone ever used grex private stock before?
    I can get pretty good deals on a few colors.
  14. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,438
    Likes Received:
    8,301
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    Nozzles are a soft metal, the steel from the twist tie is not. plus the end is a flat end, not tapered like a needle. While reaming a nozzle with a needle is possible it should be done very gently. Soaking and a paint brush or whittled down cocktail stick is the best option for the longevity of your equipment.

    Using the paint you are using is the majority of your pain. you're trying to push thick paint through a .3 needle, reducing that size will make it worse.

    Transbase is essentially pigmentless paint. this should be factored into your 'paint' ratio. eg: 1 drop paint + 1 drop of trans base = 2 drops paint.
    with the ratios you stated in your first post you have only reduced 50%.
    for fine detail you can expect reductions of 1:10 (Paint/reducer) or more. PSI of 15 or less.

    Pigment size is the primary difference. smaller pigment means you can use a .18 needle
  15. Lt4-396

    Lt4-396 Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    NYC

    Well luckily I've only done it once. I will find something soft to use instead. So just the needle is SS?
    Wow a 10 : 1 reduction is much more than I would have thought. I feel like I am making the paint more grey and less black with my current amount of reduction but tomorrow I will try the 10:1 with no Trans base and see what happens.
    For now I'm just dealing with monochrome so maybe I will order a bottle of black and white. 8oz on amazon is pretty cheap.
    Should I go with the illustration or wicked detail?
  16. markjthomson

    markjthomson AKA Quick Draw !! (and still very happy) Staff Member Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    6,086
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    Either illustration or wicked will be OK. My recomendation is get a transparent. Here is a good video on airbrush cleaning.
    JackEb likes this.
  17. Lt4-396

    Lt4-396 Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    204
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    NYC
    When you transparent your talking about the wicked correct? I've never seen an illustration mention opaque or transparent but I'm assuming they are transparent as well.

    How does spectra tex compare with them
  18. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,438
    Likes Received:
    8,301
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    a long bristled artist brush works well. once the paint is soaked its easily dislodged...... soaking in water wont be very effective. If you are going to continue using createx paint then invest in some "restorer"..... brilliant stuff and you can reuse it. I keep a small lidded jar with some in just for soaking the nozzles in. - I suggest putting the lid on while its soaking.... that way if its knocked over you wont be playing hide and seek with a nozzle.

    reducing the paint wont make the paint grey as such... because its thin you need to paint additional layers to get full colour, and that is more noticeable with transparents. they get darker the more layers, opaques will darken to a point and not get darker.

    you'll only need black for a monochrome painting,

    You will get different results that the tutorial simply because you are using opaques (even with a trans base) "tutor" used transparents in the video.

    wicked /wicked detail/illustration are all transparents to varying degrees. Illustration are releasing an opaque range very soon.
  19. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Mod

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Messages:
    11,691
    Likes Received:
    8,705
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Hampshire South Coast UK
    If your paint is skipping - dots, dashes, its a sign of a dirty nozzle. Its not recommended to put anything metal through the nozzle that isn't the needle. Theoretically the wire is small enough that it should be ok, however it is possible to scratch the inside of the nozzle, and that will mean the needle and nozzle wont seat or seal properly. Also if the wire is big enough to touch the sides of the nozzle to force blockages out, it is possible to flare it, which ruins it. You can do this with a needle also if you are not careful, but the with the taper this should not happen as long as you are gentle. If the wire is not touching the sides of the nozzle then it is a pointless exercise anyway. The needle can still be placed in the nozzle and not be seated quite properly because of a teeny speck of paint, without dislodging it, and it is designed to fit the nozzle. If the wire is too small it wont be doing the job properly anyway.

    Hopefully the nozzle is still good, and its the paint that is the issue. Even if the nozzle is spic and span, as soon as you run paint through that isn't ideal it could block again right away. The Grex private stock is a multi surface paint, so if you plan to paint on different things should be a good all rounder (I don't use it, so cant comment on what its like) If you plan to do more specific work i.e just fine art, then something specialising in that with all the properties you may want would be better.

    Edit oops, looks like everyone types faster than me. I forgot to mention line thickness. You can get very fine with a .3. I can get finer than hair line with a .35. Again, better paint will help with that too :)
    JackEb likes this.
  20. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,438
    Likes Received:
    8,301
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    but you get that result with Wicked detail and reduced more than 50/50 don't you ?

Share This Page