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Hp-cs vs Patriot 105

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by Dale Wilson, Mar 24, 2015.


  1. Dale Wilson

    Dale Wilson Young Tutorling

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    Hi all,

    I'm sure you've had this discussion before, but here we go again.
    I have the Patriot 105. It was my first gravity brush. I got it before I saw this site and the overwhelming lean towards the Iwata Hp-cs.
    Being, still, green to airbrushing and learning how to use one, would I notice any significant difference between the two? The body shop painter at my work tells me that the brush isn't the critical part...it's the hand which holds it.
    I know him to be very smart and expert at paint work, but he is also a bit extreme.
    I am very tempted to just cave and get and hp-cs. But, at my skill level, would I be better off just learning art with the patriot and not spending the money?

    Thanks, all, in advance. You have been great to talk to, to learn to brush.
  2. splasha

    splasha Detail Decepticon!

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    As a user of the HP_CS, I am biased towards the Iwata brand, but have and use other generic gravity fed types as well.
    I find it a vey sturdy,well made piece with a really nice feel and a good finish.
    As such, it represents good value and is a real workhorse.
    I also have a Veda, a H&S ultra and an SCA branded airbrush, all of which I use occaisionally for different aspects.
    Each has its own peculiarities, but once you come to grips with them, they're fine.
    I can't really comment on the Badger patriot as I've yet to use one, so this would be unfair, in my opinion.
    Some one will be along shortly, I'm sure.
  3. AndreZA

    AndreZA Elite Member! Elite Member!

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    I changed from the 105 to the Eclipse. To me there was a huge difference. The 105 "fine" setup is about a 0.5 en you will have to get the "ultra fine" or "Super fine" conversion to get it to 0.3. I did not have the problems with my 30 year old 150 that I did with my 105. And it is nickel plated and not chrome so it discoloured from the moisture on my hands.
  4. Mr.Micron

    Mr.Micron Royal pain in the air hose Admin

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    Mainly it is preference , Jeff and Big John have taught me over there time here to try out as many different airbrushes as your budget allows you to.
    But I will only suggest this after you have had a couple of years to learn all the ins and outs of airbrushing .
    Part wise the badger is a little easier on the pocket then Iwata. But being my Eclipse CS is old and has been through hell and back while I was trying to figure this airbrushing thing out . I have only had to replace the nozzle and needle once.
    For me the heavier the airbrush the better I like it . Being I am a heavy handed person .
    But both are capable of doing great works of art with .
  5. boneman65

    boneman65 Mac-Valve Maestro!

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    you could be like alot of others and buy them all and then tell us what you think.....lol.... ireally have no comment though so i shut up now.lol.. naaa ..the guy at chicago airbrush was trying to persuade me to buy a H&S german brush...i have the HP-C+ but i seen the highline has a mac valve...the hpc+ is like night and day compared to the cheap Master i used prior to.....if and i say loosly if i had the cash to blow i would buy them all an sit for hrs womdering which one to use.....therefore ....well im addicted.... :):laugh::laugh::laugh:
  6. wmlepage

    wmlepage Elite Member! Elite Member!

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    Like Andre I used to have a Patriot 105, 2 even, then I got an Iwata and I have never looked back. Now all o have are Iwata's. To me the trigger action is smoother, more responsive, and just has better spray characteristics. They have very similar construction, except that like Andre pointed out , the I wats build quality is so much better. Add in the ability to remove the needle cap on the eclipse to get a better view of what you're doing and where you're going, the badger can't do this , if you try it won't spray right. Then the Iwata s just felt better and I felt more confident with them in my hands.
  7. jagardn

    jagardn Airbrush Acquisition Disorder Patient Elite Member!

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    I have the Patriot and it's my go to workhorse. If your thinking budget wise, like Andre said, you could get the super fine conversion kit. One thing I've learned over the last few years is that Airbrush Acquisition Disorder is a serious problem and the people on this forum are no help. ;)
    Actually, with all the techniques I learned at Dru Blair's classes, I could use the Patriot for damn near every painting I've ever done. That being said, I do prefer to use forehand for details sometimes so I do like having all 6 of my detail brushes. Lol
  8. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Mod

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    I love my HP-CS, and always recommend them, I can't comment on the Patriot as I've never used one. But I would say think about what you are hoping to achieve - and then decide - can you do that with the Patriot? I'm guessing you chose it because you thought it might suit your needs, has that opinion changed? Are you getting on well with it? Is it comfortable? Are you seeing an improvement in what you are doing, and are you starting to get to grips with all the different techniques you need to learn to begin to reach your goal. Can you see that continuing, and as you get better will the brush continue to allow you to refine what you are doing even more. Are you not getting the results you were hoping for? Taking into account your relative inexperience - do you think the airbrush is holding you back? Before you joined the forum and read about the eclipse, were you happy with the patriot, or were you having doubts about it, and reading about the eclipse has made you wonder even more?

    If you are getting on well with it, and with the option of the conversion kit later on, then maybe you don't need to change. Ideally it would be good if you knew someone who would let you try their HP-CS, or have a shop that would let you have a demo so you could compare. If the answer to the above is, that you feel you aren't getting what you want from the brush, or feel it's holding you back, then it may be worth considering the Iwata. IMO it's an awesome brush.

    I think your painter friend is right in many ways, it's the hand holding the brush that creates the art, and once you've got to grips with learning to airbrush, refined your trigger control, built that muscle memory and feel comfortable with the different techniques, an experienced AB'er can get great work, with fine detail from any quality brush regardless of nozzle size. But it is also true that people learn better, and feel more comfortable with some brushes rather than others. I used a DAGR before the eclipse, but ended up sending it back due to some issues, and decided I would try something different next time. After lots of research to see what would suit my needs best I chose the eclipse, and suddenly things I was struggling with before just seemed a whole lot easier, and I never looked back. Without having the two brushes side by side to directly compare it's hard to say what would suit you more, but if you are not wanting to spend more money and you are getting on fine with what you have, then you could just stick with the Patriot. You still have the option of trying something different later on if needed, or with more time and experience under your belt, if you feel you are outgrowing it, you could change then. You are already a step ahead of the game from those of us who started out with practically unusable cheap knock offs :D If you are already feeling unsure about the Patriot , then maybe not having confidence in it could hold you back, or leave you wondering whether it is the brush or the painter that is to blame. in that case the Iwata could be just what you need.

    Only you can answer these questions. For me not having the ability to remove the needle cap is just a big no no, but every ones preferences are different. I guess it comes down to how things are going with what you have, and do you think having something else will improve that.
  9. Dale Wilson

    Dale Wilson Young Tutorling

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    Well Squishy, all I can say is Wow! That is a lot to chew on.
    I had bought a Badger 150 off of ebay. Painted my first model with it. It has a nice trigger and works fairly well. I did discover that a grav. feed brush would work better. Since I liked the "action" of the 150 I just punted and bought the Patriot. I liked how it worked and what I could do with it. Keep in mind that my experience is very young.
    I do think joining this website has had a major influence on my ideas about which brush to use. It's more out of curiosity than need. So, I really don't need to spend the money for it. I would like to just have a side by side comparison. I bought my Glock 17 after running 10 rounds through 5 other 9mm's side by side. The big difference here is that I have a lot of family and friends who have guns. I only really know one painter and, while we are friends, he would sooner punch a friend in the nose before letting him touch his paint equipment.

    I failed to mention that my wife bought me the Sotar 20/20 for Christmas. I really am feeling the learning curve with this brush. I have put a bunch of paint through it as well and I do like it. Great detail, as long as all my mixture, pressure, ya ya ya are right.

    Like Jagardn mentioned above, I think it may be just A.A.D. I do find I tend to go overboard when I get involved in a hobby. I started learning to smoke ribs, brisket and other tasty meats a couple of years back. Now I have four smokers (one I built) and have a BBQ competition team. It's probably more me than any thing else. I don't have to have the "best", I just like to have pure dependability on anything I use. Because I see how heavily tilted the scale is for the Iwata, it makes me wonder if I am missing something. Even if I buy it, don't like it and sell it off, I won't lose much money and will have gained an education. If I like it, I can sell the Patriot and recoup some of my expenses if I need to.

    Once again, thanks for all the comments to all. I have really enjoyed this site and your friendly input.

    Cheers,
    Dale
    Squishy likes this.
  10. AndreZA

    AndreZA Elite Member! Elite Member!

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    Seeing that you have the those other Badgers then the 105 will fit in perfectly.
  11. Dale Wilson

    Dale Wilson Young Tutorling

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    Well, I haven't "pulled the trigger" on acquiring an HP-CS yet. In fact I have been getting to know my Badger Sotar 20/20 a bit better. Just looking for users of the Sotar and wonder if any of you have done a side-by-side with an HP-CS. I can achieve very fine detail with the Sotar and the trigger action is ultra smooth compared to my Patriot.
    Actually, I'm just fishing for your talking me out of spending more money on another airbrush. Trying to avoid ABAD.
  12. AndreZA

    AndreZA Elite Member! Elite Member!

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    The two are aimed at two completely different jobs. You will not get the detail from an Eclipse as you can from a sotar.
  13. basepaint

    basepaint Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Sound's like You have the two airbrush's as one is a good detail brush and the other a workhorse.For the time being I would practice with both as you stated your new to airbrushing and practice helps alot in what you will be able to do but you will learn as you go. If you need any help doing something with the airbrush's just ask on here and we all can help!
  14. Bodyworx

    Bodyworx Spider Splatterer

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    I would tend to agree with your painter friend. It all depends what kind of 'difference' you wanna see. I don't use EITHER of those brushes so i can't speak to that but i have seen guys do amazing work with a Paasche VL that some guys couldn't do with a Micron. It's all about skill level. The tool will only make you so good. Good Luck.
  15. Jezurus

    Jezurus Gravity Guru

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    I have a Badger Krome and it will paint very fine detail, This is just my opinion, I think Badger puts more into the performance aspect than the visual aspect, my Krome came with a ding on the back screw on needle cover that was chromed over, while not a big deal Iwata would not have let this leave the factory. I really love the Krome brush, but I will be getting an Iwata Hi Line, the one with the Mac valve.
  16. Madbrush

    Madbrush Guest

    Whilst your choice of an Iwata is a wise one, I have the Iwata HP-BH + which has the built in mac and it is too easy to accidentally nudge it open, I've ruined many a piece because of it, I now have a separate mac under the moisture trap of my Micron and I find this safer.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't get a mac version of your chosen brush but just something to think about before you order, I'm sure how you hold your brush will have an influence on whether or not it could a problem, I always have my middle finger extended forward which is part of the problem I suppose.

    Little titbit here; extra gadgets on any appliance at all are just more things that can go wrong, if you had separate mac develop a fault you can replace it or fix it without affecting the rest of the brush, meaning if you had to send it away you would still have your brush to work with.
    Jezurus, Squishy and Smiler65 like this.
  17. Jezurus

    Jezurus Gravity Guru

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    That is def something to think about, the problems you mention never crossed my mind, I am not the most gracefully human so If there is something I can hit or mess up ussuallyI will! I would like the Mac valve to be on all my brushes so the separate one makes more sense, Thanks for the info!
  18. Ronald art

    Ronald art Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    it all comes down to the hand that holds the brush , being a Iwata lover and user myself I would go for a HP any day , but no matter how good your brush is if the hand that controls it hasnt got the experience it wont make a difference
  19. larz313

    larz313 Gravity Guru

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    I have 4 Badger airbrushes in my arsenal. The 105, 155, Velocity Jet, and the 20/20. I also have a Master G22 with the .3 standard setup. I did a comparison between the 105 and the G22 and for how I mix my paint the G22 does better honestly. But I'm not that experienced so I know I have to play more. The 105 works great for me too. But again, based on what I do, I'm actually going to get the super fine conversion kit for it. I'm in the same boat as you. My finger hovers over the buy button on a CS almost daily. LOL. But in my opinion, converting the 105 will put it in the CS range of work for less money.
  20. Nada

    Nada Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Nothing wrong with either of the brushes you bought. There thats angel me.

    The hp cs is an outstanding brush, i can honestly get as fine w it as my badger krome. Trigger on the krome is better, spring on the iwata as from the factory is stiff for me, so i changed mine before i even used it. I havent regretted my iwata purchase once. I havent regretted my krome either although i may sell the krome if i get an olympos.

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