For Every Airbrush Artist!

Ready to get involved? Register for free and you won't see any google advertising!

Register

Intercoats

Discussion in 'Airbrush Paints' started by PaintThrower, Jan 11, 2017.


  1. PaintThrower

    PaintThrower Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    16
    How are you doing today? Please do not grill me on this thread I am doing it for informational purposes, I am going to try a test for an alternative to 4030 Intercoat clear. I just wanted to get some feedback from you guys, who knows somebody might have already come up with something.

    4030 is a water based polyurethane, I just got done using a Rustoleum water based poly on a bar top I made. While I was using it I realized they seem to be the same consistency, 4030 seems a little more reduced (due to its manufactured for airbrushing), also they are both the same whitish color and dry to a clear.

    I did some google research:whistling: and found out people have used this over paint (latex and acrylic) with success, and being it comes in a rattle can als0,o it can be reduced for spraying. I emailed rustoleum about any long-term effects from using this over paint for an intercoat I am still waiting for a response.

    I have also looked up the msds on both products, they both contain Triethylamine, 4030 shows 2 hazardous ingredients and the Rustoleum shows 4 hazardous ingredients.

    (Also I have tested rustoleum clear coats gloss/matte which are not water based over water based paint which I had success, I painted a basketball backboard which has been outside for more than a year with no noticeable problems with the paint I used Wicked and Auto Air on the project.)

    What I want to do as soon as I get more information from rustoleum and hopefully some good insight from you guys is a couple test panels using the rustoleum poly as an intercoat and also as an additive for Candy2o.

    Another question I have that hopefully somebody can answer is 4030 states that it is non-catalyzed and I cannot find anything on the rustoleum stating whether it is catalyzed or not would that make a difference?

    Also before I do the test I want to get the semi-gloss sheen rustoleum, all I have now is gloss.

    I appreciate any feedback:thumbsup:
  2. MeeshellMP

    MeeshellMP Goddess Queen of carts Mod

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    6,841
    Likes Received:
    5,232
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Backwoods Michigan USA
    Interested to see some answers
  3. J000seph

    J000seph Mac-Valve Maestro! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    923
    Likes Received:
    1,139
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    PaintThrower likes this.
  4. PaintThrower

    PaintThrower Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Thank you for your input, but what I am looking for is something that can be multi purpose and added to the paints directly for durability and paint flow like createx 4030. I have used rustoleum which is similar and comes in a spray can for intercoats which I am happy with, and have never had a problem with yellowing or flaking etc. Some of my projects using the rustoleum have been outside for over a year and still look as bad as the day I painted themlol. But I will look more into the krylon who knows may work better than what I use.

    I appreciate it.
  5. Maple Art

    Maple Art Elite Member! Elite Member!

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    If I am understanding you, you want to add/mix Rustoleum to your paints? If you want paint flow "like 4030" why not just use 4030 or am I missing something .:thumbsdown:
    jsymac and BrianPaints like this.
  6. PaintThrower

    PaintThrower Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Yes, I am just doing a test to see if this could be used as an alternative. Like I said in my first post that they both claim to be the same type of product, they look similar and have the same drying characteristics. Of course if you are doing a product for a paying customer,car, something important by all means use 4030. With that said I have already done some initial testing and it looks promising. If you are interested in the outcome keep checking the thread I will be posting pictures and what I find out about if this works or not.
  7. PaintThrower

    PaintThrower Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I have an update on some of the tests with the rustoleum polyurethane I have been doing, unfortunately my phone is in a bag of rice:whistling: so I cannot take the pictures right now. Rustoleum has e-mailed me back and said that the polyurethane can be used over any water based paint but of course test before use on a project, but they cannot recommend mixing the poly with paint. So with that I went ahead with the tests.

    The tests have been done on a board that has been primed and sanded, and I am using wicked paints.

    Test 1: Thinned the poly down 2:1 which sprayed excellent at 20 psi. Has good adhesion flashed in less than 5 minutes using light coats (I tried laying on a very wet coat to see how it would react, I did not get any runs however it started to get a couple of fish eyes which after it flashed flattened out smooth.)

    Test 2: I sprayed the poly over wicked white to act as an intercoat, It also had good adhesion same flash time using light coats at 20 psi.
    ** I also sprayed white next to it without an intercoat so overtime I can tell if there is any yellowing or reactions to paint.

    Test 3: I mixed the reduced poly into the wicked white at 9:1 which is what createx recommends for the 4030, then reduced to a consistency which I like and shot it at 20 psi. It mixed good, shot good, and got good adhesion also flashed in less than 5 minutes. It seemed to get better flow than just using paint and reducer I was still able to pull fine lines daggers and blends.

    Test 4: I used regular masking tape and shot some poly over the edges to try and get sharp lines which I have found to be hit or miss using cheap masking tape. Then did the same as test 3 but with wicked jet black (same results as above) and shot it at every direction I could at the masking tape to see if I can get it to go under which it only did in one spot that had a bubble on the edge that I did not push downlol. Other than that super sharp line.

    I am about to go ahead with test 5 and mix the poly with candy and shoot over the white line that was created by the masking tape in test 4, to see how the poly reacts with candy paint. Hopefully by tomorrow my phone will turn back on and I can post the pictures that I have so far of the tests.

    ** Just a side note, I do know that adverse effects may not show up right away, these are just initial tests I will be periodically posting back to give updates on how each test is holding up to the test of time:thumbsup:.
    Basstrack238 likes this.
  8. GregStith

    GregStith Elite Member! Elite Member! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    1,391
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Brandenburg, Ky -USA
    Thanks for taking the time and posting the results.
    PaintThrower likes this.
  9. PaintThrower

    PaintThrower Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    16
    No problem, I will be posting pictures. As soon as I finish a couple paintings I have going right now I plan on doing one using the poly to see how it works during a real paint session. Unfortunately I cannot say for sure how the poly holds up for the long run only time will tell, but I do plan on doing updates as time goes on. But with the initial tests it seems like a winner so far:thumbsup:.
  10. Shad0w

    Shad0w Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Chroma airbrush paints are polyurethane out of the bottle. I havent fully tested but i mixed it with wicked and painted on a leather phone workout band. Next day took some water to it and the wicked, i noticed a bit of colour on qtip from both the pure wicked and the mix nothing substantial.

    Used w500 reducer on qtip which seemed to slightly affected the wicked pure paint more.

    If you're going to mix, im thinking autoborne transparent would be best for adhesion etc. It can actually handle solvent based paints, I just discovered it and will be using it, a lot, it doesnt come off with autographix tape on plastic. Where normally it will take off paint or createx "sealer"
    PaintThrower likes this.
  11. PaintThrower

    PaintThrower Double Actioner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Thank you for your input. Sorry I still have not got to the pictures yet, I have been super busy. I let the test panel sit for about 48 hours then I did some scratch tests to see if mixing the poly aided in durability. It did help with durability with what I would consider normal wear and tear without a clear coat added, but it also held up to an exacto knife blade better than just paint and reducer.

    I also did a wipe test with different solvents to test the durability which you could still wipe the mixture with wicked paints off but it took some effort. The test I did with auto air candy pigment withstood every solvent I tried and also stood up to moderate wet sanding.

    As it looks now I am thinking the Rustoleum ultimate polyurethane is going to be a good alternative to createx 4030 (of course I would not use this on a vehicle etc but for canvas wood/metal panels and fine art type of stuff) but I still have to wait it out to make sure there is not significant yellowing/fading etc. or any adverse reaction that would come with time before I will say for sure it will be a good alternative.

    For now I am playing with different reductions of the poly to see if I can find something that works better/worse.

Share This Page