Need airbrush advice, overwhelmed!

[John742]

i use a krome and sotar both from badger. like wise any of the brands you mentioned are good. i would just stay away from unbranded chinese cheapy stuff. i have 6 if them sat in draws from when i was first starting out took me ages to realise what brands were what. remember needles and nossles need replacing a lot. so look at the cost and availability of getting hold of the parts you will need to replace. in the uk it takes about 5 days to have an order delivered from the one badger supplier here. :/

Luckily I live right by Chicago so getting parts from Chicago airbrush supply is no problem

 

[RebelAir]

Catch 22..If details your thing you prob want a gravity like what is being mentioned..if you want to do auto its may not the best gun..Most airbrush artists have a go to brush, if you do various forms of media your go to brush will be different for each need that medium requires. Why some of us collect airbrushes LOL, well that's the excuse..EG..Try painting a car with a patriot or a gravity of any type...go on I dare ya LOLOL..Not that you can't, its just a little more painful, especially on the larger work needs a lot of auto requires..but saying that it may also require detail say on a motorbike tank so naturally a change of brush is then required..If you only could choose one and was planning to feature a lot of auto work I'd say your better of with a siphon of some description..Bigger paint flow, faster more even coverage and you wont run out of paint every 30 seconds...But the good thing about some siphons is they can also do detail very well, take the anthem with a fine line conversion kit..very fine detail but won't match a krome or micron..Close LOL but detail is much easier achieved obviously with a detail gun, especially on metal as sometimes lower pressure is a bit safer....But saying that there are few detail guns (besides a few that can utilize fan nozzles and such) that are any good for base coating and larger blending needs or painting areas of a much larger surface area, its not what detail guns are designed to do...

So obviously the best option for you is most def both ...But get started with something, the iwatas mentioned and the badgers mentioned are all good airbrushes that in various hands can do amazing things, theres no real best, just what's best for you or your need at that time ..you can always build on your collection but if auto is your goal, strongly consider a good siphon...Good Luck

 

[John742]

Wanted to say thanks to everyone for their help and input, got my iwata eclipse hp-cs a little while back and you guys were NOT lying it's a night and day difference. I love this brush and for $150 it's a damn good deal.
Only thing for me is the .35 mm needle and nozzle I mean it's good but for really small dots and such, it's a little touchy.
Couldn't I just get a .2 needle and nozzle for it however? My .22 mm masters brush gets in a lot smaller then the iwata hp-cs so I still need something better for even finer details.

 

[AndreZA]

You can go pretty tight with an Eclipse. Just give it some time. It won't be Micron small but I'm sure .25-.22 easy. And not, there not off the shelf parts to make it smaller. If you search on here then you will find someone has replaced the nozzle tip with that off a HP and got good results.

 

[John742]

You can go pretty tight with an Eclipse. Just give it some time. It won't be Micron small but I'm sure .25-.22 easy. And not, there not off the shelf parts to make it smaller. If you search on here then you will find someone has replaced the nozzle tip with that off a HP and got good results.

Ok, so I should probably just buy another good brush with a .2 mm nozzle and needle setup.
Any suggestions on a good .2 fine detail brush that won't break the bank?

 

[Malky]

Ok, so I should probably just buy another good brush with a .2 mm nozzle and needle setup.
Any suggestions on a good .2 fine detail brush that won't break the bank?

Iwata HP-B , this one , it's also available in a side feed version as well as this model with the built in MAC which would be the HP-BH the HP-B is probably most economical of this series, but at round $80 -$100 more than your Eclipse you definitely won't regret the outlay.

Your eclipse is capable of far more fine detail than you may think, it just a case of getting to know it and play around with reductions and pressures, after much playing around and understanding it better you find it will give you everything you need, the HP-B will do the same but a lot easier

I have the side feed version of the eclipse after giving up with a micron and totally love it, the micron is awesome without a doubt but extremely finicky when it comes to reduction, based on my own experience with the Micron CM-B I would suggest that CM-C is easier to use, but I won't buy one because I find it ugly, if i thought it was possible put same size set up into the CM-SB body I would choose that option.

 

[AndreZA]

You only need 2 guns. 1 is the Eclipse and the second is a Micron. I don't like any of the other models because you can not access the back of the nozzle without using tools. You can always look at Olympos. The HP-100 series is nice.

 

[jord001]

Is the hp100 the side feed? How does if compare to the eclipse? I don't think it would match the micron but I'd be interested if it was worth it.

Lee

 

[Squishy]

I can virtually do the same fine line with the eclipse as I can with a micron. The micron line is crisper, and maybe a tiny fraction finer, but there's not a massive difference. The micron does it smoother and easier, and for me is more instinctive. But the eclipse comes very close, the more you use it, the more you get out of it, its just a question of time and experience, and getting the best paint/reduction/air ratio possible, which really helps too.
I find the hp-cs and cm-c the perfect combo.

 

[jord001]

I agree there @Squishy I can pull very fine lines with the clipse too, it's just practice and like you said th right paint consistency. I found that out when doing the real flame class. We used th HPcs and I was pulling hair lines however the micron just makes it easier. Yet to try the Olympos properly to compare, so I plain to do my pp with it. I feel a practise run first is in order though.

Lee

 

[Squishy]

I haven't tried an Olympus either, but seems like a few peeps have one now, so looking forward to reviews.

 

[John742]

Yea I don't really have the money for a micron at the moment that's one that's definitely on my wish list however, one day I'll get 1.
I'm going to keep playing with my hp-cs maybe I'll get better with it and be able to pull better/smaller lines. But still none the less I need to buy another GOOD brush with smaller nozzle and needle setup.
Thanks again for all your help cause I'm in love with my hp-cs now!!

 

[Malky]

Yea I don't really have the money for a micron at the moment that's one that's definitely on my wish list however, one day I'll get 1.
I'm going to keep playing with my hp-cs maybe I'll get better with it and be able to pull better/smaller lines. But still none the less I need to buy another GOOD brush with smaller nozzle and needle setup.
Thanks again for all your help cause I'm in love with my hp-cs now!!

It's just a case of lots of practice, your CS will give incredibly fine detail once you get used to it, I don't know how familiar you are with trigger technique or how much experience you have but when you push down for air, the amount you pull back for paint will determine your paint to air ratio, when you do pull back a space opens between the tip of the needle and the inside of the nozzle, the space increases as you pull back, the trick is to pull back just enough for paint to actually start coming out, this is the point where you will see just how fine you can get, I now use side feed models because it meant that the top of the brush is unhindered and I can use the underside of the first knuckle of my trigger finger instead of the tip, this gives me more control and dispenses with the need for the dreaded death grip, , gravity feeds don't allow me to do this although a siphon feed would, why not just mess around practicing some very small dots and lines to get your finger used to it, most of do still do that for short while at the start of each session, it gives muscle memory a poke and and lets you know that brush is in good order before risking ruining your work, once you get to grips with your brush you'll probably decide that may not need another brush, but if you do buy another brush later you discover that what you can do already is even easier.

Messing around with reduction and pressure will obviously play a part in the above practice too, so keep that in mind, and ask if your not sure about anything.

Straight after I advised the Iwata HP-B above I actually ordered the side feed version of the same brush just because I couldn't handle the thought of you having one and not me,

 

[John742]

It's just a case of lots of practice, your CS will give incredibly fine detail once you get used to it, I don't know how familiar you are with trigger technique or how much experience you have but when you push down for air, the amount you pull back for paint will determine your paint to air ratio, when you do pull back a space opens between the tip of the needle and the inside of the nozzle, the space increases as you pull back, the trick is to pull back just enough for paint to actually start coming out, this is the point where you will see just how fine you can get, I now use side feed models because it meant that the top of the brush is unhindered and I can use the underside of the first knuckle of my trigger finger instead of the tip, this gives me more control and dispenses with the need for the dreaded death grip, , gravity feeds don't allow me to do this although a siphon feed would, why not just mess around practicing some very small dots and lines to get your finger used to it, most of do still do that for short while at the start of each session, it gives muscle memory a poke and and lets you know that brush is in good order before risking ruining your work, once you get to grips with your brush you'll probably decide that may not need another brush, but if you do buy another brush later you discover that what you can do already is even easier.

Messing around with reduction and pressure will obviously play a part in the above practice too, so keep that in mind, and ask if your not sure about anything.

Straight after I advised the Iwata HP-B above I actually ordered the side feed version of the same brush just because I couldn't handle the thought of you having one and not me,

Lmao!! That's great. Now I really have to order it as well! no I understand the basics of airbrushing I can pull a pretty fine line out of it but still not as fine as my .2 brush but I'm going to try to reduce my paint a little more and drop air pressure and try again maybe I'll get better results?

 

[Malky]

Lmao!! That's great. Now I really have to order it as well! no I understand the basics of airbrushing I can pull a pretty fine line out of it but still not as fine as my .2 brush but I'm going to try to reduce my paint a little more and drop air pressure and try again maybe I'll get better results?

That's all it comes down to, just find the sweet mix and combination that works for you, I could tell you my pressures and paint mixes but these depend on your paints so wouldn't work the same unless you were using the same paint.

I actually had a micron but couldn't get anything out of it, not because there was anything wrong with the brush but because I just didn't have the know how to use it to it's full ability, they are pretty finicky when it comes to reductions and such, so despite being an excellent brush I have just accepted that it isn't for me, I always had joy using my old HP-BH which was far more forgiving and easier to use in my case, not mention spares being almost half the price, so after advising you I suddenly started to miss mine and ordered the side feed, in the past I always avoided side feeds because I was worried about balance but after using my eclipse it wasn't a problem at all and I saw the benefits very quickly.

As far as the Eclipse goes, I can honestly say I have never had a brush that gave me so much pleasure, I seriously can't believe that it is so cheap to buy, I would have expected poor performance based on the price but it's a damn good advertisement for Iwata themselves.

If you find the HP-B a little too expensive @frank artale is selling an Olympos similar to it which I'm lead to believe performs as good as the micron, I'm considering one but waiting for a review from Andre before I decide, he has two versions a standard version for $100 and an improved version for $150 I believe, so maybe worth looking into for you since he is also in the USA and the post won't kill it

 

[frank artale]

I am partial to Iwata & Olympos. But in all honesty. The Olympos HP-100sb is an outstanding airbrush. It is a perfect companion for people who use the CM-SB. Not for superfine detail. Perfect for 90% of your creation. They are so similar in feel. I have had a few people recently tell me this as they were all cm-sb users.

 

[John742]

Yea, now I'm looking for something that's capable of super fine detail without the price tag of a micron. I got my all arounder brush, I'm actually going to pick up a second iwata hp-cs just to have a second one.
Still want something with smaller setup for super fine detail though. Thanks again for all the food for thought.

 

[AndreZA]

If that gun exist then the manufacturer will be very rich. ALL super detail guns will cost you a pretty penny. And don't be fooled by nozzle size. The H&S with its 0.15 does not work finer than the Micron with its 0.18 nozzle. You will need to set a money limit and see what is the best within that.

 

[John742]

If that gun exist then the manufacturer will be very rich. ALL super detail guns will cost you a pretty penny. And don't be fooled by nozzle size. The H&S with its 0.15 does not work finer than the Micron with its 0.18 nozzle. You will need to set a money limit and see what is the best within that.

Ahhhh ok I was under the assumption that the smaller the needle/nozzle the finer the line. I'm kind of looking around $350 for a fine detail brush.. . Maybe I'm just better off waiting saving up to the micron?

 

[AndreZA]

The number on the box does help. But the design of the gun also plays a part. And obviously experience using one. I would recommend waiting for a Micron. You can go pretty close with 0.2 from the High Performance range.