The trials of going from solvent base to water base

[Godom]

Having used solvent base paint systems like PPG Delton and House of Kolor for airbrushing and graphics on cars and motorcycles, helmets etc over the years I learned a lot of tricks and effects. Like water spots on a color and dusting a pearl over it or slinging machine glaze over a base color and spraying pearl or another color over that for a effect. Being able to sand dirt and defects out of the base colors with wet sanding with 1000 grit and water to get a smoother finish or fix scratches and chips easily. In the past year I started using ppg envirobase and createx wicked colors and quickly realized that you can't do some of the old tricks or wet sand your base coats because it reactivates your base and it will literally start peeling off or turd balling is what I call it. You can sand it but you dry sand it with 1000 grit and it doesn't work as well but still will smooth out some dirt or let you fix a small defect. The old water spot effect don't work on water base either. You can use a intercoat clear and do it but it's trickier. My point is to see if anyone else has come across any of these issues and what you did to resolve them or find a similar effect that works with water base that you did before with solvent base systems. I would be happy to answer any questions or anything about the two different types of paint systems if anyone has specific questions.
Regards
Greh

 

[Mr.Micron]

I just cheat , If I want the water spot effect I lay a coat of intercoat clear on , let it dry and then spray water on it and use HOK ...
But no some of the old cool tricks will only work well with urethane paints.
I have on a hot , non windy day almost got water base to pull off water spots .
I usually cut with 1000 grit then finish it off with 1500 or 2000. depending on color I am working with.

 

[Vladimir]

What kind of reducer do you use usually for ABing with Deltron line? If you use different, please describe why. It's both interesting and important.
I'm going to buy Very Slow reducer as I think it gives an opportunity to have less possible tip dry. Though tip dry with uretanes it's not the same as with waterbased paints.
I started to AB with water based then tried urethanes. The defference is so high that I think I'd never switch to waterbased again if there's no special circumstances, I suppose. With urethanes I can see only advantages for painting process itself.

And what's the difference between Deltron and Envirobase in general? I mean behavior of the paints their +s and -s.

One thing with urethanes is I've not a single time had nozzle clogging! It's impressive!

 

[Godom]

Yes urethane or solvent based paints are great when it comes to tip dry nozzle clogs etc. I still use a combination of both systems but have started using the water based paints more and more lately. The shop I work in switched to envirobase so that was one reason I started abing with it. Reducer for Delton you definitely want to use a hot or slow reducer regardless of temperature. DT 860 is cold reducer and it goes up to DT 898 is hot or slow reducer. Back in the day when I started using Deltron it was called DBU instead of DBC. The DBU reducer were called 1175 1185 1195 1195 being the hot one and these were reactive reducers that worked great. The is an additive you can add to your paint and reducer called DX 57 now with the DBC to make it reactive but it will shorten your pot life and shelf life of the reduced paint so maybe just add it to what you know you will use that day and leave the bulk of your paint unreduced or reduced without DX 57 additive. There are a lot of things about water base that I like and things that are easier. A lot of guys can paint big panels in Metallic colors easily with no blotchy or modeling or streaky overlap patterns they had problems with solvent systems. Envirobase is really easy to spray with a paint gun whether it be a metallic or solid color. Its a learning process and I guess I still cheat and use both systems when indo custom work but that's how I always done custom paint work by using whatever I can get my hands on and afford to get the job done. Anyhow I agree with you on the ease of using solvent based system for airbrushing and you are correct in using a hot or slow reducer for your paint. Some guys take a long time to figure that one out for some reason. You can get away with using cold fast reducers in a paint gun when the Temps go down but always use the slow hot stuff when. You airbrush and your work will come out much nicer.
Regards
Greg

 

[ferret]

I use lechler hydro fan wb & tetrosyl Aqua t. Wb automotive systems for regular car repairs etc and some ab work . Yes solvents tend to work well in ab ,but things have and are moving forward with regard to wb paints . In the UK we have had to use them since 2007 for repairs unless it's vintage or classic due to the lower voc within them . There are big differences between wb systems in automotive industry ,however I have found them to work fine in an ab as long as you use the slower reducers ,in fact I have even used the automotive systems slower. Reducer in my normal wb airbrush paints . To do repairs on wb systems I just remove the say scratched or dirty area with some reducer and blend it out then dry and re paint . Drying times are I think one of the bigger issues with regard to wb paints . I use trident wb ab paint and so far the only tip dry issue is with the white but that's common across the board . Blending silvers and metallics IMHO is easier with wb . Filtering your wb paints even ab specific ones will save you a lot of grief when ab ing .

 

[Vladimir]

Thanx Greg!

What does that additive gives us while ABing? I understand that something good, but don't know what exactly, which feature.
I've read somewhere that reactivate additive when used in base coat 1K paint, which is actually we paint with, causes some bad things for the paint in future. I don't remember what in particular, but there's something there. That additive is supposed to be used in 2K paints but I'm not going to use them due to very short pot life But it would be interested to experiment with that additive

One more thing I like about PPG Deltron that it has warm and cold both white and black, while "usual" paints for ABing have in their lines only one white colour. Another solvent based automotive repair paints are also have both warm and cold colours. It's a huge difference for whether to use only one cold white colour or cold and warm white. Adding to that, among solvent based, there's huge choice of transparents and opaques. I can't find that choice among AB WB paints, that I find rather strange. I thought, artists require more colour choice than body repair shops

 

[Cordyk]

Great topic @Godom . Its good to hear more about solvent based paints as we do tend to all focus on the waterbased ones on this forum more often.
thanks for sharing mate.

 

[ad fez]

i like to smoke while I work..... no solvent based for me im afraid

 

[Vladimir]

i like to smoke while I work..... no solvent based for me im afraid

Don't be afraid For having explosive concentration of solvents in your working area you'll have to spray such amount of solvent that you spray with your AB during a year I think I know body repair guys who heat their "spray booth" with direct fire gas burners while spraing cars And they use spray guns but not the ABs! So amount of solvent vapors and flying paint particles coulnd't be compared with airbrushing. Though I wouldn't have ever done that myself and wouldn't recomend to anyone to do so

 

[ferret]

The additives I use in wTerbased paints are the slower reducers ,to aid flow and significantly reduce tip dry . Regarding candy colours I use the transparent bases within the waterbased systems just the same as solvent clear base coat as a carrier of colours and pearls,metal flakes. Etc to give desired effect .i have had good luck with using trident to make transparent colours ( candy effect ) ,semi opaque and the like .

 

[Squishy]

i like to smoke while I work..... no solvent based for me im afraid

Is that because you build up enough speed that you actually start to smoulder LOL????

I would like to try solvents, think I wouldn't want to change back if it's so much nicer (to use anyway, not to work with) . So it's waterbased for me all the way. I guess it's hard if you're not used to dealing with the tip dry of waterbased, but when you get it dialled in it really becomes negligible, I rarely have to stop and clean my needle, but I think I have the W500 reducer to thank for that.

 

[ad fez]

Hahahah yer like it!

I used to smoke after sex actually....

But I can't go that fast anymore