Trouble with Micron now

[GregStith]

Ok seems like trouble just keeps following me no matter what I do with airbrushing. I'm gonna call myself the 'outlaw of airbrushing'.
Just got the Iwata Micron CM-SB. I'm using Wicked Detail Payne's Grey. 1:7 paint to reducer. 20 psi with trigger depressed. I can only spray for a minute until tip dry starts. Instead of getting pigment out it starts spraying mostly reducer and spidering after a minute. If I reduce the pressure the paint won't flow without pulling back considerably on the trigger.

Here's what I just found in the cup.





It's dried paint that won't clean off with anything other than restorer. The bottom of the cup was blue where the color was separating. I'm going to make a paint stirrer then put this sucker on my paint shaker. Is 1 minute of spraying before tip dry normal like this? Am I just expecting too much?

Thanks in advance y'all. Tell me I'm just doing something obviously wrong that's easily fixableops:

 

[IPT]

I'm a relative novice so take my thoughts with many grains of salt. I think if it's separating either the paint is bad, the reducer is bad, or it's just normal and you're not agitating it enough. I know plenty of times I'm airbrushing I need to "swirl" the paint a bit to keep it evenly mixed in the cup. Especially in the Micron where so little paint is moving from the cup.

As for tip dry with 1 min of spraying, if you are literally talking about constant spraying for a min I would that would be normal. That's an awful long period of spraying. Shoot, even shooting base coat I am no where near one min of full spraying. Air on, yes, constant spraying, nope.

Anyway, just my thoughts. Hopefully someone with more knowledge and suggestions will chime in. I will also add that i had issues with skipping and buying loupe enlightened me regarding the condition of my nozzle. Maybe it's blocked just enough the reducer can get by and pigment can't? In fact that is what was (sort of) happening with me. I'd blast it and it'd be good for a bit until it built up again on the "one speck" of paint in the nozzle, then clog. Blast out the clog, good to go until the 'spec" gathered enough paint to clog again, and again, and then again .

 

[GregStith]

Thanks for replying. I have the issue with both Olympos Microns and now this Iwata on its first use. I'm always swirling the paint in the cup. I'm using gray because from what I've heard it's supposed to be less tip dry than black or white. I just stirred the paint and now I'm going to put it on my shaker. The minute spraying is not wide open. It's with the air on continually and working the trigger back for detail work. Thanks.

 

[musicmacd]

Maybe didtch the wicked? Sounds like Etac would be better. I have zero tip dry with Etac. The CI is better than wicked but has tip dry. I too used to get frustrated with reducers and paint but now I don't have to think about it.

 

[GregStith]

I have Etac white and black. I may go ahead and get some more colors as well. But I think I may have found my biggest problem. I've been experimenting with so many different variables it's hard to pinpoint the issues. From what I understand gesso is one of the best surfaces to spray on so I've been using it off and on. Instead of buying the good stuff I'm using the aerosol spray stuff which is slick as snot after sanding. After spraying for a minute I don't get tip dry bad enough that causes spitting. It's just a thin coat of paint on the needle that seems to slightly alter the consistency. On media with bite it doesn't really cause an issue but with this stuff it starts spidering really easy. After it started spidering on the gesso surface I tried fine detail on glossy photo paper which used to seem slick to me and it was doing great.


Does the good gesso still have good bite after sanding? Man oh man if this has been my problem all along I will be so stoked to have been so dumb

 

[basepaint]

Another thing you can do to help reduce tip dry is add some extender to your paint as it keeps the paint from drying so fast

 

[jagardn]

Maybe didtch the wicked? Sounds like Etac would be better. I have zero tip dry with Etac. The CI is better than wicked but has tip dry. I too used to get frustrated with reducers and paint but now I don't have to think about it.

I would say the same thing. I personally have had issues with Wicked. Tip dry and maintenance were a pain in ass for me.
ETAC and Createx Illustration have both worked well. I've been using them for years without major issues.

 

[michael13]

I have found Autoair and wicked to be a pain when it comes to tip dry, since switching to etac I don't even paint with the nozzle cap off anymore because I will usually go a paint session without bothering to clean the needle. Don't get me wrong I do still get some build up of tip dry but it is super minimal and I would say I get more from autoair in 2-5mins then I would in a hour with etac. I also use condition air from etac in my reducer water as it is ment to help with flow and tip dry, can really say if this is true or not as I have always used it since I switched to etac. Try back flushing and using a tooth pick to keep the paint mixed in the cup.

 

[musicmacd]

Regarding the condition air - i had a discussion Mick ozairbrush who sell the paints and uses them, he recommended just putting a couple of drops in a small bottle of water. Worked well for me,

 

[markjthomson]

Couple of other quick questions... what are you using for a reducer? Is it compatible with the wicked? (Lets eliminate the obvious...)
What is the temperature where you are?

 

[Nada]

Paynes grey from wicked is pretty thick.. i like wicked, i like golden, i like com art, i like CI.

But all of them are different. I wont run wicked without w500 and my reduction ratios are likely crazy high in my mp200c. My mixing is more like dump in reducer add a couple drops of paint., spray add a drop more paint spray. Do i like it? Yup ok painting time. Spidering is always just one slight miscalcuation away for me. I want my paint thin. If i dont think im getting coverage fast enough i slow down. (Had to learn the hard way)

You will never eliminate tip dry. And your paint will never be one pass coverage in a detail gun.
And as much as i am too lazy to want to do it strain wicked paint.

 

[GregStith]

Wow thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it! I think I'll go ahead and get a bottle of gray from Etac.

Couple of other quick questions... what are you using for a reducer? Is it compatible with the wicked? (Lets eliminate the obvious...)
What is the temperature where you are?

I've tried the w100 that is recommended on the bottle and also the w500. Really no difference I could tell. The temp is 64F.

I going to experiment more today but I really think the majority of my issue is the super slick gesso I'm using. After finishing this piece I'll try another surface.

Thanks all

 

[Madbrush]

Wow thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it! I think I'll go ahead and get a bottle of gray from Etac.


I've tried the w100 that is recommended on the bottle and also the w500. Really no difference I could tell. The temp is 64F.

I going to experiment more today but I really think the majority of my issue is the super slick gesso I'm using. After finishing this piece I'll try another surface.

Thanks all

This super slick gesso that you mention sounds like it could be a latex based primer rather than gesso, I use gesso quite a bit and generally have no problems with spidering, it's possible you just need to lower your pressure some, we normally all have to change our ratios to suit different substrates, but having seen your work, I'm pretty sure you know all this already so I apologise if I sound as if I'm trying to teach you stuff.

from what I've read here above you probably also have a bad batch of paint as mentioned, if your in any doubt, simply lob it, it's to but a new bottle of than mess around trying clean your nozzle or even worse having to replace it because of it, I've always been a bit tight with stuff, but these days I;ve just accepted it's sometimes easier and cheaper to be a bit radical.

As much as I hate to see another suffer, It does console me that there may be others out there with similar luck to myself, meaning, if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all,

 

[GregStith]

Madbrush I appreciate the response. I can always learn something so keep the info coming here's the gesso I'm using.



It might be because I sanded it too smooth. I'll experiment on a smaller piece after finishing this piece. I'll probably still purchase more Etac. Thanks!

 

[Madbrush]

Madbrush I appreciate the response. I can always learn something so keep the info coming here's the gesso I'm using.

View attachment 40451

It might be because I sanded it too smooth. I'll experiment on a smaller piece after finishing this piece. I'll probably still purchase more Etac. Thanks!

I personally wouldn't trust much out of a rattle can, I'm a painter and decorator by trade and I have never used a can in forty years that didn't cause me problems, I think the biggest problem with these cans is the possibility that the propellants used have no place in the paint itself and an adverse affect, some paints don't dry as quick as they should, remain sticky fir weeks and I think its all down to and agent that just shouldn't be in the mix.

You could easily get yourself a mini HVLP gun for around 30-40 dollars with 0.8 nozzle and thin down and run your own brand name gesso through it instead, these guns will run off your normal airbrush compressor as long as you don't do huge sheets all day long, a half dozen A3 size boards would be fine, that way you also have the peace of mind of knowing exactly what your puting on.

Having said all that, when you spray, you generally shouldn't need to sand at all unless there has been some serious spluttering, if your finish is flat and not stripey or has ridges, you're pretty much good to go, a very slight roughness such that it feels like dust is a god key for your artwork, at the very most a light scuff with finest grit you can find is all you'll need.

 

[Nada]

I can sand good gesso so smooth it is like glass. So im not sure your surface is the problem.

The difference between w500 and w100 on tip dry is night and day with wicked. Cleanup was easier as well. If you still have some w500 you might give it another shot.

Now if your still leaning towards etac, i have one bottle thanks to the very generous @jagardn. And compared to wicked it would be a dream. Everyone paints different and if your paint is not doing what you want, then it truly is time to change!

 

[GregStith]

I've used w500 as well. For me I just don't see much difference. I do let it sit for several minutes before using as recommended. I've got plenty of sprayguns in my shop from doing autobody so I wanted to start spraying on gesso myself instead of using aerosol. If no difference comes from this then I'll try the Etac Paynes grey but I've got to start changing only one element at a time to see what the issue is.
I really do appreciate all the input guys. This is such a great forum!

 

[GregStith]

@Nada Thanks for replying. Let me ask you some questions if you don't mind and see if our setup is similar or way 0ff. I just tried again an hour ago 1:10 ratio (wicked gray:w500 reducer) using Micron .18 needle, 14 psi with trigger pulled. Almost immediately after beginning I get a coating of paint on the needle(probably normal) it isn't enough to start spitting paint. I've had that happen before when spraying at higher pressure or using thicker ratios. This just changes my spray from being a darker pigmented line to more of a reducer spray that spiders really easily on this surface. It's like the paint starts out at a certain consistency and then gets thinner after a very short time. I'll clean the tip and when I start spraying again it's just like when I first started. The process repeats every time. If I try less pressure at this ratio to start then I really have to pull back a lot farther to get flow. I can't think of any other info to add right now.
Thanks for helping!

 

[Nada]

Sounds like you are seperating in the cup. Although my 200c is a .23 obviously, still not a huge difference. And if it is seperating in the cup it will lead to problems.