Windex... really?

[OldSkooler]

I have been reading up on paints and I have come across the use of windex window cleaner a few times. On the Createx illustration paint product sheet it mentions re wetting with Windex. Really? Windex? I have also seen posts online where people recommend thinning their paint with Windex, or cleaning their airbrush with it. I'm wondering what makes Windex so special? Does the blue tint of Windex cause color shifts? Is there a better product to use besides Windex?

Thanks,
D.

 

[basepaint]

Yep you read it right theres a few recipes for for thinner for water base paint,just make sure you get the Amonna free or it will eat the chrome out of the cup

 

[musicmacd]

It must just be me, but the thought of using windex over proper crafted solutions does not sit well !!

 

[matty171]

Ive used it as a reducer from i got my first set of com art, never had any issues with it

 

[Nada]

One of the main ingredients in windex, is also the main ingredient in wickeds w500 reducer. The big difference being you dont get all the other junk in proper reducer.

 

[musicmacd]

Would there be any health implications regarding atomising it??? I know we all wear masks/.....................

 

[matty171]

Would there be any health implications regarding atomising it??? I know we all wear masks/.....................

If your masked up i wouldnt think it would be a problem, when im using it im using very low pressures so i dont think it's a problem, plus i smoked and partied for 20 odd years so bit of windowlene wont kill me. Just dont drink it [emoji15]

 

[Nada]

Actually there can be very adverse affects for atomizing windex. As well as wicked reducer. I should bit dont wear a mask all the time.

 

[Mr.Micron]

Okay since no one wants to listen I will give you the super long version of why not to use WINDEX!!!!!!!!
First the Material safety Data sheet http://www.local510.org/msds_sheets/Windex_MSDS.pdf
now for a break down of what is does to you ..
2-BUTOXYETHANOL
OSHA comments from the January 19, 1989 Final Rule on Air Contaminants Project extracted from 54FR2332 et. seq. This rule was remanded by the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and the limits are not currently in force.

CAS: 111-76-2; Chemical Formula: C4H9OCH2CH2OH

OSHA's former permissible exposure limit for 2-butoxyethanol, one of the family of substances known as the glycol ethers, was 50 ppm as an 8-hour TWA, with a skin notation. The ACGIH has a limit of 25 ppm TWA, also with a skin notation, for this colorless liquid with a mild ether odor. The proposed PEL was 25 ppm as an 8-hour TWA, and this limit is established by the final rule. The skin notation is retained. NIOSH (Ex. 8-47, Table N1) concurs with the 25-ppm limit for 2-butoxyethanol.

2-Butoxyethanol has long been known to be toxic, with early studies indicating that a single seven-hour exposure to 700 ppm was lethal to laboratory animals (Werner, Mitchell, Miller, and von Oettingen 1943a, as cited in ACGIH 1986/Ex. 1-3, p. 71). Exposures near the lethal level caused systemic toxicity in the form of hemoglobinuria and lung, kidney, and liver changes. Carpenter, Pozzani, Weil, and associates (1956/Ex. 1-303) reported hemolytic anemia and increased fragility of the red blood cells in rats repeatedly exposed to 2-butoxyethanol at 320 ppm for five weeks. However, repeated exposure for 12 weeks at 400 ppm was only slightly injurious to dogs (Werner, Mitchell, Miller, and von Oettingen 1943b, as cited in ACGIH 1986/Ex. 1-3, p. 71).

Humans appear to be less susceptible to butoxyethanol poisoning than experimental animals. In humans, several single 8-hour exposures at levels of 200 ppm and 100 ppm caused urinary excretion of butoxyacetic acid; these subjects experienced irritation and discomfort after these exposures (Carpenter, Pozzani, Weil et al. 1956/Ex. 1-303). A recent study has confirmed that the increased erythrocyte osmotic fragility observed in rats exposed to many of the glycol ethers is a very sensitive indicator of toxicity and correlates with the development of hemoglobinuria at higher exposure levels (Moffett, Linnett, and Blair 1976, as cited in ACGIH 1986/Ex. 1-3, p. 71). These findings indicate that the no-effect level in animals is approximately 25 ppm. The ACGIH suggests that 2-butoxyethanol's toxicity may be more likely to occur as a result of skin absorption than as a consequence of inhalation (ACGIH 1986/Ex. 1-3, p. 71).

Ethylene glycol hexyl ether has many uses, including as antifreeze in cooling and heating systems, in hydraulic brake fluids, and as a solvent. Acute (short-term) exposure of humans to ethylene glycol by ingesting large quantities causes three stages of health effects: central nervous system (CNS) depression, followed by cardiopulmonary effects, and later renal damage. The only effects noted in one study of individuals exposed to low levels of ethylene glycol by inhalation for about a month were throat and upper respiratory tract irritation. Rats and mice chronically (long-term) exposed to ethylene glycol in their diet exhibited signs of kidney toxicity and liver effects. Several studies of rodents exposed orally or by inhalation showed ethylene glycol to be fetotoxic. An epidemiologic study on renal cancer mortality did not find an increased risk for workers exposed to ethylene glycol. EPA has not classified ethylene glycol for carcinogenicity.

The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers (Ex. 3-830) objected to the establishment of a PEL for 2-butoxyethanol on the basis of a 25-ppm no-effect level in animals, particularly when the evidence suggests that humans may be less susceptible than animals to the effects of this substance (Ex. 3-830, p. 5). In response to this comment, OSHA notes that Patty's Industrial Hygiene and Toxicology (3rd rev. ed., Clayton and Clayton 1982) states that "the lowest concentration of ethylene glycol butyl ether vapor considered to be unpleasant and therefore disagreeable was 40 ppm" (Vol. 2C, p. 3939). This level is below OSHA's former PEL of 50 ppm, and the Agency thus believes that its former standard for 2-butoxyethanol was too high.

OSHA concludes that the former PEL of 50 ppm was insufficiently protective against the risk of 2-butoxyethanol's irritant, hematological, and other potential systemic effects, which constitute material health impairments. The limit of 25 ppm included in the final rule will reduce this significant risk to a level below that at which these toxic effects have been observed in animals and humans. This lower limit will also prevent the discomfort experienced by workers at exposure levels of 40 ppm. The skin notation is retained because of 2-butoxyethanol's ability to be absorbed dermally in toxic quantities (2-butoxyethanol's dermal LD(50) in rabbits is 490 mg/kg [RTECS 1988]).

Isopropyl alcohol
Synonyms & Trade Names
Dimethyl carbinol, IPA, Isopropanol, 2-Propanol, sec-Propyl alcohol, Rubbing alcohol
CAS No.
67-63-0
RTECS No.
NT8050000
DOT ID & Guide
1219 129
Formula
(CH3)2CHOH
Conversion
1 ppm = 2.46 mg/m3
IDLH
2000 ppm [10%LEL]
See: 67630
Exposure Limits
NIOSH REL
: TWA 400 ppm (980 mg/m3) ST 500 ppm (1225 mg/m3)
OSHA PEL
†: TWA 400 ppm (980 mg/m3)
Measurement Methods

NIOSH 1400;
OSHA 109
See: NMAM or OSHA Methods
Physical Description
Colorless liquid with the odor of rubbing alcohol.
MW:
60.1
BP:
181°F
FRZ:
-127°F
Sol:
Miscible
VP:
33 mmHg
IP:
10.10 eV
Sp.Gr:
0.79
Fl.P:
53°F UEL(200°F): 12.7%
LEL:
2.0%
Class IB Flammable Liquid: Fl.P. below 73°F and BP at or above 100°F.
Incompatibilities & Reactivities
Strong oxidizers, acetaldehyde, chlorine, ethylene oxide, acids, isocyanates
Exposure Routes
inhalation, ingestion, skin and/or eye contact
Symptoms
irritation eyes, nose, throat; drowsiness, dizziness, headache; dry cracking skin; in animals: narcosis
Target Organs
Eyes, skin, respiratory system
Personal Protection/Sanitation
(See protection codes)
Skin: Prevent skin contact
Eyes: Prevent eye contact
Wash skin: When contaminated
Remove: When wet (flammable)
Change: No recommendation
First Aid
(See procedures)
Eye: Irrigate immediately
Skin: Water flush
Breathing: Respiratory support
Swallow: Medical attention immediately

 

[Smiler65]

Can you repeat that @Mr.Micron didnt quite get it the first time round

 

[Madbrush]

I've never used windex or any other household fluid for anything at all to do with airbrushing, I use a generic water-based cleaner which smells nice even when sprayed, I have always had lung problems but even spraying this stuff doesn't cause any irritation but I spray into a cleaning station anyway, I also use a little cellulose thinners when there is dried up paint but I do not spray that ever, if I had to spend time making and creating my own cleaners and thinners I would give up airbrushing altogether, I generally want to paint so I don't see the point in giving up the time doing that to make other stuff, I also base my choices on the fact that if I use recognised cleaners and reducers then I have the right to complain when they don't do what they should, messing around with stuff you know nothing about could be costly not just to your equipment but also to your health, I refuse to take chances with either, if people can't afford the real McCoy then maybe it's time to start drawing since all they need is a half decent pencil and some paper.

I have a similar view to pimping brushes, if I didn't like my brush as it was I would look for one that has what I need rather than tamper with the one I have, my theory is my brush came with a trigger and a spring, I have to get used to it whether I like it or not, changing these things out willy nilly has to affect any guarantee that eve existed.

The only cleaner I have ever used is a kitchen spray cleaner my wife uses, I only use this from out of the finger trigger operated spray container it came in to clean my white board and easel after each job, but this goes nowhere near my airbrushes.

 

[Smiler65]

I have a similar view to pimping brushes, if I didn't like my brush as it was I would look for one that has what I need rather than tamper with the one I have, my theory is my brush came with a trigger and a spring, I have to get used to it whether I like it or not, changing these things out willy nilly has to affect any guarantee that eve existed.

I better change mine back then, and get myself one of the v2 sb's

 

[Nada]

I've never used windex or any other household fluid for anything at all to do with airbrushing, I use a generic water-based cleaner which smells nice even when sprayed, I have always had lung problems but even spraying this stuff doesn't cause any irritation but I spray into a cleaning station anyway, I also use a little cellulose thinners when there is dried up paint but I do not spray that ever, if I had to spend time making and creating my own cleaners and thinners I would give up airbrushing altogether, I generally want to paint so I don't see the point in giving up the time doing that to make other stuff, I also base my choices on the fact that if I use recognised cleaners and reducers then I have the right to complain when they don't do what they should, messing around with stuff you know nothing about could be costly not just to your equipment but also to your health, I refuse to take chances with either, if people can't afford the real McCoy then maybe it's time to start drawing since all they need is a half decent pencil and some paper.

I have a similar view to pimping brushes, if I didn't like my brush as it was I would look for one that has what I need rather than tamper with the one I have, my theory is my brush came with a trigger and a spring, I have to get used to it whether I like it or not, changing these things out willy nilly has to affect any guarantee that eve existed.

The only cleaner I have ever used is a kitchen spray cleaner my wife uses, I only use this from out of the finger trigger operated spray container it came in to clean my white board and easel after each job, but this goes nowhere near my airbrushes.

And exactly why i dont mess around... i dont have time to mess with something that is boundbto be inferior. A quart of wicked reducer is not that costly. I use w500 with wicked and w100 with other paints, or water. I priced diy reducers versus buying and felt it not worth my time. I can paint weeks with a bought bottle of reducer. When you consider i go through a lot more doing a helmet than art.. how much does someone save really, Compared to clearcoat costs it is almost nothing. And compared to even our diy panels with gesso, or a sheet oF 4g what does the paint cost in relation... not much.

 

[Squishy]

I am of the opinion that the proper stuff is designed to do the job, and has had a lot of time and money invested in it - so why not use it - it works, and in the case of W500 reducer, has many other benefits that a home brew doesn't have too.. If it doesn't work then that's another matter, but the Createx additives and cleaners IMO work really well. I accept that you are probably paying over the top for it to some degree - but after all they are in business, and a little goes a long way. If I use the recommended stuff and anything adverse happens, I can then go back to the manufacturors and complain.

But if people want to use home brews and save money that's their call, but just be safe Breathing in anything that isn't supposed to be in your lungs is never good manufactured or not - so just look after yourselves!

 

[Ronald art]

that is why I use a paint that works perfect for me straight out the bottle no need for any reducers and if I on occasion need a little thinner paint water will do the trick .
I clean the brush in between colors with the same thing : plain good old water. if I clean my brush at the end of a session I do use a 3 or 4 drops alcohol 70% or a alcohol based window cleaner like windex just to flush out the paint followed by you guessed it : water

 

[Madbrush]

I better change mine back then, and get myself one of the v2 sb's

LOL, everyone has the choice, if a taller trigger works for you then go for it, I don't doubt at all that all these little tricks work for some people, but in view of the prices I've come across for lose parts, it's it just makes sense to me to simply get used to what I have, I used almost every different type of spray gun and system there is in my own job over the years, all of the equipment belonged to whatever boss I worked for at the time, so I never had the the right to chop and change in order find a better trigger action or spray pattern/size, I simply had to work with what I had and be happy, since I started airbrushing I've more or less done the same, the brush was made and designed a certain way and I saw no need to change it but instead just get used to it as it was, it's only recently I conceded to the fact that a taller trigger might benefit, but not if it bumps the price of the brush up by 40 quid or so, I could get a full set of com-art paint and some paper for that kind of money and that's what I'de rather do, the best brush in the world is no use to me if the cost of it means I can't afford to buy a compressor to drive, some paint to blast through and some paper to blast onto, I might as well buy the key ring Matty got from lion which would do exactly the same job for around ten quid at that rate, in my case it just comes down to common sense and what I would rather do with my money.

 

[Squishy]

Mr Mad, don't tell me you have common sense

 

[Ronald art]

LOL, everyone has the choice, if a taller trigger works for you then go for it, I don't doubt at all that all these little tricks work for some people, but in view of the prices I've come across for lose parts, it's it just makes sense to me to simply get used to what I have, I used almost every different type of spray gun and system there is in my own job over the years, all of the equipment belonged to whatever boss I worked for at the time, so I never had the the right to chop and change in order find a better trigger action or spray pattern/size, I simply had to work with what I had and be happy, since I started airbrushing I've more or less done the same, the brush was made and designed a certain way and I saw no need to change it but instead just get used to it as it was, it's only recently I conceded to the fact that a taller trigger might benefit, but not if it bumps the price of the brush up by 40 quid or so, I could get a full set of com-art paint and some paper for that kind of money and that's what I'de rather do, the best brush in the world is no use to me if the cost of it means I can't afford to buy a compressor to drive, some paint to blast through and some paper to blast onto, I might as well buy the key ring Matty got from lion which would do exactly the same job for around ten quid at that rate, in my case it just comes down to common sense and what I would rather do with my money.

in a way you are so right , I worked with stock microns for years , only all trigger springs where changed at zero costs back in those days and I would still work with them if the V2 version was just a little better for me to work with
Now I hear you think : didnt that guy bought that fancy tricked out and pimped micron ?? yes I did but do I need it? the answer has to be a honest NO , is it easier to work with ? oh yes it is ! was it worth that big price tag? in short : yes to me it was worth every cent and more

 

[Madbrush]

Mr Mad, don't tell me you have common sense

I know Squish, I really don't know what happened, I think they gave me the blood of a genius during the necessary transfusion I had at the hospital after that terrible little finger accident, nothing else could explain it and I can't think of anything else unusual that took place in the last few days, it's all a little bit twilight zone

 

[Smiler65]

@Madbrush I was taking the mick mate, I was using a modded trigger anyway but just wanted the new look and a better finished piece. If I had to buy it in England I wouldn't of, I would have just put up with what I had. It would of cost £75 to buy the trigger here compared to £28 in Holland. With the saving I made buying my nozzle, needle £7 together then £1.80 on each bottle of paint I bought, that trigger actually cost me £16 which I was happy to pay and I actually think it does give me a better control. But as you say it's horses for courses.