acrylic paints

T

Tonyck

Guest
i have started to airbrush a mural on my garage door, but am having deep trouble with the paint.
having bought paint from my local paint store who recommended an acrylic paint mixed with
80% binder and 20% paint with added acrylic thinners. The gun is constantly getting blocked
and trying to mix a brown colour with yellow red and violet is seeming difficult.
What reasonable priced paint can use to go over the acrylic paint i am using. Can anyone
please help as i have half complete the mural.
Thank you
tonyck
 
What is the brand of paint you are using? And what gun? And what PSI? You probably need to experiment a bit with your ratios a bit, it can vary from colour to colour, one colour may flow well, but another may need a slightly different mixture. AB specific paints have finer pigments than other paints, and even those who say they are airbrush ready, usually refer to airbrushes with nozzles .5 and above. Com Art I believe works well straight from the bottle, but if you are using something smaller you maybe need to reduce more. Also are you filtering the paint? If you aren't using airbrush specific paint, then although not impossible, depending on what type kind you are using, it will make life more difficult, especially if you have a smaller nozzle.

If you are wanting to change paints, I would recommend something lightfast to stop fading if it's going to be on a garage door. Wicked paints by createx are a good, (you will still need to get used to what ratios work best at what pressure etc, but once you've got it, they really work well), and an all rounder good for may different types of surface, including fabrics. Other people have their own favourites, but some you could research are Trident, E'Tac, Com Art, Golden. Not sure if they are all lightfast or if they will go over what you already have. There shouldn't be a problem with paint reacting if it's all water based, but when you say "go over" do you mean cover, or enhance what is already there? Opaques will cover, trans paints won't.

If you could give a bit more info, and maybe a pic would be good too, then someone will be able to help you out better :) Also try mixing reds and greens to get good browns.
 
Im to assume, that this mural is on the inside of the door? Because acrylic paint is just gonna wash off. Agree with Squishy, you need to get Wicked paints, excellent paint!! But for now, if acrylic is all you can have, your gonna need to reduce it also, When I used acrylics, I used windex to reduce mine. (That was when I used my cheap gun Master G22) There are some good home made mixtures on line.
 
Because acrylic paint is just gonna wash off

Hope it doesn't as my whole car is acrylic LOL..Well it is auto acrylic so may be lucky LOL, plus it doesn't rain much where I live so phew :)..As Squishy mentioned, what type of acrylic/paint is it..When you say you went down the store, an auto paint store or a hardware store that sells house paint?..I assume a auto paint store, if indeed its the other, a house styled paint I wouldn't be mixing any acrylic thinners into it, water will do, add some flow medium as well and it can be used but it can also cause some probs..One trap many fall into is buying paint really not suited for airbrushing or mix home brews without knowing really what they are doing as its a science within itself and adding certain chemicals or additives can have negative effects, but as mentioned, much of your probs sound like it comes down to the pigment grind, in house paint its very course. in auto acrylics not a prob as the grind is much finer and made to be sprayed. Straining the paint will definately help smooth it out and take out the bigger clumps that are likely blocking up your brush GL..Oh yer on making brown, just add every color you have..no doubt brown will result LOL..But yer some more info on brands your using etc may assist..
 
Hi everyone, particularly Squishy whose questions i shall answer. Thank you all sincerely for such a quick and in depth
response. i have already spent some time answering the questions and then when i tried to send it, it vanished, so i
will start a again.
The paint i am using is Valspar, this was recommended by my local paint shop for painting metal. i have to mix it with binder 20% paint 80% binder, then i have to thin it with Motorspray Alac 20t acrylic thinners. The binder is uv 1k acrylic
binder. i was told by the paint shop guy when i had prepared the surface to use Valspar isolator and when i have completed the mural to spray it over with Motorspray top coat clear. i am filtering the paint, i am using two badger 150
airbrushes one with a 1 needle and one with a 2. i adjust the needle by taking them back a little to develop more flow.
The air pressure is around 25psi. i have a lot of ventura water based paints i use for painting on canvases, i also have
some wicked paint which i have not use because i found out it needs a reducer, can i buy this reducer or someting
similar from my local art shop or do i have to buy it from Createx? i also have some colours of art spectrum annd
Atelier. is it possible to use any of these paints on top of the Valspar i am using? Thank you all again for being so
helpful, i do appreciate it and thank you Squishy for your advice on mixing a good brown. i will now attempt to send it and also a photo if i can work it out.
tonyck
 
Tony depending on the Brush the wicked paint does not ALWAYS need a reducer. Depends on pressures and size of airbrush needle.

The Badger 150 should spray them easy but likely should have pressure increased. No acrylic will spray like your watercolors.
 
Hi Tony, unfortunately I'm not familiar with that paint brand, but after having a quick look, think it may be the paint pigment size that's giving you grief, (Hopefully someone who knows about it can be more help). I believe Rebel Air, who answered above uses that particular gun, he's a good egg, so I'm sure if he doesn't see this, you could shoot him a PM, and he'll advise where he can.

Nada is right about what he is saying with Wicked paints, and you could use a home brew if you didn't want to buy reducer, and a search on the site will probably throw up some recipes. However personally I always use the reducer as there are benefits to using it. I would recommend the W500 (although the W100 is good if that's all you can get, the W500 is better) It does mean you can get a really nice flow with smaller needles/nozzles and it aids paint flow generally - more paint flow before craters appear, helps with tip dry ( the W100 is just as good for this IMO), faster drying, tougher curing, reducing can also make colours more transparent allowing for better blends, and more tonal variation when building layers. Wicked works great on primed/scuffed metal surfaces, and the transparent (or detail as they are called in this range) pop nicely when cleared. (I use a 2k clear).
If you have a shop near you that sells the Wicked range, they should have the reducer, if not then you can get it online, although not sure how easily in Australia. If you do decide to get it, I would consider getting the larger sized bottle, you will likely use three times as much reducer as paint, if not more.

I think the best way to see if any of the paints you have work on the Valspar is to maybe do a test panel on a spare piece of metal if you have it, and see how they work, then give it a coat of clear to see if one looks better than another, and make sure there are no reactions.

Post up some pics if you can Tony (you may need to resize them if they are too big, I just change mine to large in windows photo gallery, and that size loads fine), it may help people advise you better :)
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone, particularly Squishy whose questions i shall answer. Thank you all sincerely for such a quick and in depth
response. i have already spent some time answering the questions and then when i tried to send it, it vanished, so i
will start a again.
The paint i am using is Valspar, this was recommended by my local paint shop for painting metal. i have to mix it with binder 20% paint 80% binder, then i have to thin it with Motorspray Alac 20t acrylic thinners. The binder is uv 1k acrylic
binder. i was told by the paint shop guy when i had prepared the surface to use Valspar isolator and when i have completed the mural to spray it over with Motorspray top coat clear. i am filtering the paint, i am using two badger 150
airbrushes one with a 1 needle and one with a 2. i adjust the needle by taking them back a little to develop more flow.
The air pressure is around 25psi. i have a lot of ventura water based paints i use for painting on canvases, i also have
some wicked paint which i have not use because i found out it needs a reducer, can i buy this reducer or someting
similar from my local art shop or do i have to buy it from Createx? i also have some colours of art spectrum annd
Atelier. is it possible to use any of these paints on top of the Valspar i am using? Thank you all again for being so
helpful, i do appreciate it and thank you Squishy for your advice on mixing a good brown. i will now attempt to send it and also a photo if i can work it out.
tonyck

Personally, I would go with Wicked and Wicked detail paints. They aren't re-wettable, so you don't wash to worry about it washing off when it rains. Although I'd still definitely top coat it with a 2k clear (which, if you aren't familiar with working with, start reading up on how to spray that stuff safely).

The Wicked paints tend to be pretty inert when it comes to reacting to other paints. I've used them over urethanes, laqs, latex, paper, cotton, leather... It's pretty versatile stuff. Plus, it's tough, sticks like crazy to almost anything, and has high UV resistance ratings.

You should be able to get the reducers through local art/craft stores or hobby shops. Basically, anywhere that has the paint is going to have the reducer, and the reducer is pretty cheap. I like W500 better, but W100 works well, too. Neither work magic, so you'll have to play with reduction amounts a bit. Any Auto Air reducers with a product code beginning with a "w" will work just fine, too (in fact, the old formula of the AA 4010 was my favorite reducer to use with Wicked. Now, the 4011 is the same stuff as the W100, and the 4010 is the same as W500. To check the product code, look by the bar code on the label. There will be a series of numbers and letters printed real small in that area. If it starts with anything but a "W", it's REALLY old stock. Don't buy that.

A search for "home brew" reducers will give you dozens of recipies to try. Some work well, some, not so much. The one "trick" I always do is to add E'Tac Condition-Air to the mix, which helps cut down on tip dry a lot. But, I don't think E'Tac has a dealer in Australia at the moment. Might be worth checking, though (etac-airbrush.com)

Either way, it sounds like a much better option than you're using now.

As far as mixing browns, remember that brown is just a darker shade of yellow.
 
I think personally you are using the right paint for the right job, by all means ya can swap to an airbrush styled paint but it will no doubt end up being an expensive project due to the size of what your doing..Auto paint is much cheaper alternative..

It sounds like they've made you up a high gloss mix, generally a high gloss mix is about 15% pigment, the rest is binder and likely some other chemical goodness. Matt finishes can be as high as 80% pigment..The binder kind of acts like a clear mixed in with ya paint, it obviously also helps bind the pigment molecules but a higher volume of binder will increase the layering need as most of what your pumping out is effectively clear..Are you finding you really have to work area's to bring in color? If so perhaps a different mix may assist, not so much though in the area of your gun constantly blocking up and I think Nada mentioned it but your PSI sounds a bit too low for a siphon feed..Pump it up to 35 minimum (40 or 50 even if your pumping out some background elements) and reseat your needle. There should be no reason to unseat your needle just to allow paint to come through as that's what the trigger is for LOL..Do you have your 0.5 setup for the 150? If so put that bugger in as it will really help with reducing blockage though I dont think the paints the issue here, well it is to a small degree as I wouldn't want so much binder in compared to paint, it will just make you have to really work in the color, thus more time spent in one area, the more chance you have of just having to spray and spray and spray to get your color out that no doubt in that time frame things may get built up a bit on ya tip..Reducing the amount of time it takes to get that color on may also help not so much buildup...If that makes sense LOL (Not enough caffine yet LOL)

The next time ya use auto paint, ask them to make you up a matte paint, and clear it at the end to gloss it up if thats the look your after..Oh and using differnt brands on top, I personally don't like to do such but many do and have no issues..Any of the brands suggested above shld be fine..Also when doing really large murals, consider buying a gun made for large surface area's, the 150 is a great gun but there are few airbrushes out there designed to do such a large job easily and time effeciently, there designed more for canvas work, when blocking in larger area's of color, an actual spray gun may suit your needs much better, then use the airbrush to refine and touch up and detail..GL with it..
 
Thank you all sincerely, what response to my questions, you are all fantastic. i have bought a spray gun which i am
using successfully for large areas. i will change the psi to a higher ratio and will experiment with the few wicked colours
i have. i shall try and include a photo of my progress at present. You are all such a great help, thank you again.
tonyck.
ps i can't see how i can include a photo to this reply, can you help again please.
 
Click on Advanced reply, go down to attachments I think its called and click that, will take ya to an upload thingy..LOL..GL
 
Thank you RebelAir, could not find it, found reply but not advanced reply. May i ask you, having looked at your
horses head in the gallery, and as i am painting a horses head on my roller garage door. How did you manage to
paint such wonderful harness ? i am having problems trying to paint a decent harness.
tonyck
 
harness? your talking double dutch to me..If you mean that thing that you can hold to stop mean horses biting you then....LOL (My wifes the horse lover in the family obviously..I ride dirt bikes, only one brain controlling that and I trust that brain LOL)

but back to the harness..I basically drew four lines, two closer too the side edge leaving the biggest space for the center area as they do tend to have a curved or raised edge appearence..I then do a half line or shielded line at pretty much 90 degrees (perhaps less than 90 degress so overspray goes into that center area) to the canvas to darken each edge but just a slight angle on the airbrush so the black over spray gradients into the center..This helps kind of make it appear curved and that center area becomes a raised edge that the light is picking up, thus highlighted in comparrison to the edges..Hope that makes sense a bit as I'm kinda drunk and no doubt it doesn't..go drink a bit, come back and read it then it will make perfect sense LOL..One day will get around to making a decent video out of that raw footage..
 
Thank you RebelAir, yes it makes sense to me.
i will have another go at placing a photograph.
tonyck
 
Here i come again, what would i do without you guys?i am making good if not slow process with my garage door mural.
What is particularly slowing me is that the plastic syphon tubes inside the plastic paint bottles only last a few
minutes and then become plyable and fall off, so i have to continue to cut new ones. is there any plastic tubing which
will hold up to acrylic thinners. Also i am still having trouble posting a photo. i followed your instructions RebeAir and managed
to down load a picture but it was upside down and very small and not very clear.
Calling again for your help.
Thank you
tonyck
 
hahaha - Tony it seems that you are having to jump absolutely all of the airbrush hurdles. Especially started with an automotive paint and a 1k acrylic paint at that.
First the clogging issue. If you've had trouble with the plastic tube melting, that's likely your cause of clogging, however it could be the thickness of the paint in the airbrush. While around 10-15% reducer is typical of a 2k acrylic paint, through an airbrush you want a minimum of 50 - 60% reduction. While you have your paint and binder ratios as recommended, try over-reducing your paint and see if this sorts the clogging issues.
I've never used 1k acrylics through an airbrush..
As for the the plastic on the jar adaptors - you need to order a jar adapter that's acrylic resistant/ solvent proof. Whenever handling acrylic paints you need to make sure your airbrush is solvent proof.

Where to go from here?

I would follow everyones advice with the wicked paints, they are readily available on the internet and there's access to plenty of good suppliers. These will suit your application nicely.

Just for future, don't use 1k acrylic paints. They have been outdated for years and were instead replaced by a 2k system, with which you can use base coats and a 2k clear over the top.
Using a 2k clear over the top of 1k acrylics is a donny don't do as the 2k hardens and solidifies, the 1k actually becomes softer with heat. This can cause delamination.

These are worst case scenarios however and you'll find that after you've used the wickeds at the manufacturers recommended ratios that once cleared you shouldn't have any issues.
 
Magic, thank you again for a superb reply. Every thing noted i will use wicked in future, i do have a little and will
will be expeimenting. i have been sold as a finishing coat acrylic lacquer clear coat.
Could i please ask for more instructions on how to download a photo of my work.
Thank you
tonyck
 
I think Mitch you will find 1k is still quite abundent but yer 2k is def taken over as the preferred, only really due to durability though and on a shed door, that doesn't matter much..1k is just a single-stage acrylic, ie the haven't added in all the hardeners and catylysts etc..I use it all the time and have 2k cleared it but yer it can cause issues for sure, I think they tried to do the right thing for him but in the process made he's life a bit harder LOL..No doubt the clear they sold him is also 1k..But then again I dunno why they sold him clear as ultimately they put that much binder in its going to have a gloss look to it anyways..But when the money is there, many shops will take it without explaining its use or that there may be better alternatives..But I still think for such a large size project its a better choice than wicked, mainly due to cost..A whole garage door in wicked wouldn't be a cheap door in the end LOL..

on ya pic Tony, it will upload whatever the original looks like, flip it around on your computer then try again, if its blurry its likely because the pic is blurry to begin with..GL..And yer get yaself some solvent proof cups :)
 
With your pics Tony - it needs to be around 200kb maximum in size, when making your post there's a little picture icon in the text editor - click that and follow the instructions to upload from your computer:cheerful:
 
Back
Top