Badger 105 Patriot problems

Cordyk

Sheriff Woody (Admington)
Hi all
I hope someone can help me, I recently bought a badger 105 patriot as my first brush after a 12 year lay off. The problem I have is that I have to pull the trigger back more than a third of its travel before getting any paint flow. I have tried replacing the needle and tip, I've also tried different paints/thinner ratios and the brush is cleaned regularly and thoroughly, I have done everything I can think of. The brush just does not seem right and its causing me frustration. I am not a complete newbie to airbrushes or spray guns as I had a number of years as a vehicle paint sprayer. I would expect instant paint flow as soon as I start to pull back on the trigger.
Does anyone else have this airbrush?
Has anyone experienced similar issues with this type of airbrush?
Does anyone have any advice on things I have not thought of?
HELP PLEASE!!!! this is doing my nut in!!
 

airbrushtutor

Love Spreading Overseer
Hi Kevin,
I've never heard of this happening before - you would think it's a blogged tip but obviously not.
the first thing i would look at is if the air holes to allow paint flow are blocked - if you are using siphon fed - check that the hole in the top of the jar is free and open - if gravity fed, check that hole on the lid to the color cup is free and open?
What sort of air pressure are you using? to my knowledge 105 is quite a large tip and as such will require higher air pressure like a minimum of 30 PSI maybe more.

if that's all clear then check that the air flow feels correct coming out of the airbrush. If the air is flowing freely and all air holes are unblocked - then i'd assume a blockage between the paint cup/ jar and the head assembly - completely strip it apart and inspect.

Sorry i can't help more - here's a link to badgers PDF on the product..
http://www.badgerairbrush.com/PDF/105%20Fine%20Patriot.pdf

Hopefully someone else has come across a similar problem..
 

AndreZA

Air-Valve Autobot!
It's like reading my own story. Bought the 105 after a 15 year lay-off. And the same with me. I have a very old 150 and the paint is instant. The 105 now has that tapered needle and I thought that is the problem but it is not. I also have a second medium needle and nozzle and a complete fine set (does not taper) and they are exactly the same. I game up and changed brands. I never contacted Badger as I thought it might have been the lack of skill on my side.

Would be great if someone do have a fix for it.
 
Last edited:

Cordyk

Sheriff Woody (Admington)
Thanks guys, it's good to know it not just me, it was like it the first time I put paint through it and instantly I thought 'thats not right', I then stripped it down completely, more out of curiosity and its good to know how things work! I had to use a pair of pliars to loosten the "finger tight" nozzles first but that was expected for first time out of the box. I thought that had somehow cured it, but no everytime its been inconsistant?
I have even put a black line with a marker pen on the needle looking down into the gravity cup, and you can clearly see it move as soon as the trigger is pulled back!!
So this defo has to have something to do with the business end of the airbrush?? To me its completely useless as a brush as you need to feel when the paint flows not guess!!
I have emailed Badger with the problem so lets see what they say, you expect this to be quality product from them, Its not the most expensive but at around £100 I want a brush to work

Great site by the way Mr Airbrushtutor
 

Cordyk

Sheriff Woody (Admington)
Ok heres the story so far....after many email conversations with Jan Mayers(badger sales director), we are practically engaged now and your all welcome to the wedding!! The result is that I send the brush back via
http://www.everythingairbrush.com/index.html who I bought it from, I put the link in because these guys are first class with delivery,customer service and recommend them. They will check it over and if any problem that is found will result in myself getting a full refund or replacement, nuff said!
There response has been ok and Jan Myers seems more than helpfull, but alas I am no longer interested in Badger, I am sure there is many guys on this forum and out there using Badger brushes and they have no problem with them as they are a quality product...just not the one I had.
So on it's way to me in the post is a nice shiney new Iwata HP-C plus and i'm all excited like a kid on christmas day!! Just want to get back painting again as soon as poss.
I will let you know the outcome from Badger when they have looked at the Brush.

Kev.
 

Cordyk

Sheriff Woody (Admington)
Well I got the badger 105 back and works like a dream!!! They stripped it cleaned it and found nowt wrong with it....go figure! Must have just been me, but as I now have my Iwata which is awesome and after three weeks of dots/lines/blends and general doodling I now feel at one with it and ready to start thinking about painting for real. I may have to sell the Badger for funds towards a compressor upgrade though so it may appear soon.
 

airbrushtutor

Love Spreading Overseer
I believe badger provide really good customer service Kev? they seem to have looked after you pretty well with this one. would give them a hit of respect if they were on the forum:) Do you feel you're improving after training with the exercise sheets?
 

Cordyk

Sheriff Woody (Admington)
Hiya Mitch,how's it going, must say you must be pleased with the way your forums going, there is such a great atmosphere and wealth of knowledge on here fuelled with enthusiasm and a real nice family feel. I have been away on my hols with the family and just got back to an Internet connection and the site has grown and the first thing I did was log in to see what I have missed!! It's brilliant mate it really is, you should be proud.
Back to the badger thing...yep they have been great and their service is second to none, the brush now works great but like I said I'm an Iwata man now so will probably sell.
Yeah the exercise sheets you have given us have proved excellent and my control has defo improved ten fold, I think that most beginners are so keen to just dive in and paint, which is great but they forget about the basics which are key to learning. I trained and taught martial arts for quite a few years and the new guys always wanted to do what those more experienced could do from the off and we would just drum into them the basics, over and over. As black belts we always practiced the basics every day because they are the fundamentals and core to what we are training.
I am looking forward to starting a few projects now that I feel comfortable with my Iwata, and may even post a few pics of what I would like to try and ask for tips on how to go about it, still got to nail the eye though!!
Keep spreading the love !!!
 

Cordyk

Sheriff Woody (Admington)
My new 105 has the same trigger issue. Not happy!

Hello mate, all I can suggest is you go through the same process I did, give a strip down and a real good clean, especially the tip but be very careful with it. When you put it back together use some good lube and make sure everything moves nicely.
I did find the needle to be very fragile and does not take much to bend the tip of it, also when using it make sure the lock nut where the cut out is at the back of the brush is nice and tight as it is possible to loosen this as your using it because that's where your hand naturally sits, and this will cause the needle to slide back.
Failing all that mate send it back and contact badger directly, they do have a very good after sales service and will do what they can to help, mine never got back as far as Badger as the place I got it from simply stripped and cleaned again and it seems to work fine!!
Is does seem to point towards that there is a problem somewhere in the production of this brush as we are not the only ones to come across this.
Make sure you are using your paints correctly and using the correct air pressure and doing everything correctly yourself to eliminate yourself as the problem and not the brush, I don't mean to sound patronising when I say that because I thought as still believe to this day that I was...but when it came back..problem solved...go figure!!?
Good luck with it mate and hope you get it sorted, I think it is a cracking little brush when working or maybe it's just not the wright brush for you, I was fortunate enough to have a bit of a bonus from work so while mine was away I bought and an Iwata and never looked back, it felt wright and just worked beautifully out of the box.
Let me know how you get on and hope it gets sorted soon.
 
B

biomedchad

Guest
oh no youre fine..i appreciate all the advice. the thing is my NEO is great and has been great right out of the box. it only got better once i learned to strip the brushes apart and lube them the way they should be..mixing and thinning skills help too. so i just find it bothersome that the brush doesnt work out of the box..without hassle!
 
V

Visualfury

Guest
After much troubleshooting on my 105, I found that aside from a good deal of air leaking from every thread from the cup forward, the needle bearing was either not seated correctly or was defective from the factory. After sealing the entire tip and messing with the needle bearing I was able to get consistant flow. But it only lasted for about an hour. I had to completely disassemble the brush every time I wanted to use it and reseal the tip and fiddle with the needle bearing to get it to work again.
 

ignis

Needle-chuck Ninja
It is extremely difficult for manufacturers to make sure every brush works well straight out of the box. The major brands test their airbrushes - usually one out of a batch - but it simply is difficult to anticipate the types of paint clients are going to use, the mix-ratios or air pressures they work with etc. Basically there are tons of different set-ups that clients prefer to use. Even my recently bought Iwata Custom Micron SB - that I absolutely love to work with - required some fiddling around with before it far exceeded my expectations. The same goes for every other brand, Iwata, Badger, Paasche, Rich Pen or whatever other brand.

One test that commonly works to see if an airbrush is good or not, is to turn down air pressure to approximately 14 psi and pour ecoline or aquarel paint in the cup. If that works well, there's nothing wrong with the brush (mainly because the types of paint (or ink rather) have very fine pigments. When using Createx for instance, the pigments are far more coarse and you additions or add water to the paint to make it behave properly.

Smokers could hold the tip area in their cigarette smoke fumes to see if the air cap is leaking (which results in pulsating jets of air and paint). Also make sure that the needle rocker is not turned outward so far that it blocks the needle fixation screw (which makes it impossible to spray just air - there is always a certain amount of paint coming out as soon as the trigger is pressed). Look at the needle tip as well, in particular if the airbrush is an occasion. Also look at the jet of paint and air coming out of the brush against a dark background with the light source directed toward you. The jet should be in line with the airbrush when looking at it from the side or from the top. If this is the case from both angles, then the needle and nozzle are correctly aligned.

If the trigger does not move smoothly, check if it is correctly placed in its seat of the airbrush's air regulator. If it is and still does not move in a smooth way, lube it with airbrush lube or vaseline. Also check the spring tension; experienced airbrush artists often prefer the spring to have as little tension as possible which allows them to use the airbrush for a long time before the index finger will be affected with cramp.

If you have a magnifying glass or microscope, check the needle tip and nozzle, to see if they're dirty, bent or damaged and if they are in-line with each other. If you look through the airbrush with the needle removed, you should be able to see all the way through it without any of the parts being off center. If this is not the case then there either is an incorrect setting or adjustment or there is a manufacturing flaw. A Paasche V#1 I recently bought had a paint cup which had a stub that was too long.... that blocked the needle. Incidents can always happen and from what I've read Badger has excellent customer service and so did Harder & Steenbeck as I've recently seen with an airbrush of a friend of mine who got his airbrush repaired (within the guarantee period) of which the air regulator part broke from the airbrush main housing.

But before contacting manufacturers make sure the airbrush is cleaned properly and assembled in the correct way. Or come to this forum for help...
 

airbrushtutor

Love Spreading Overseer
It is extremely difficult for manufacturers to make sure every brush works well straight out of the box. The major brands test their airbrushes - usually one out of a batch - but it simply is difficult to anticipate the types of paint clients are going to use, the mix-ratios or air pressures they work with etc. Basically there are tons of different set-ups that clients prefer to use. Even my recently bought Iwata Custom Micron SB - that I absolutely love to work with - required some fiddling around with before it far exceeded my expectations. The same goes for every other brand, Iwata, Badger, Paasche, Rich Pen or whatever other brand.

One test that commonly works to see if an airbrush is good or not, is to turn down air pressure to approximately 14 psi and pour ecoline or aquarel paint in the cup. If that works well, there's nothing wrong with the brush (mainly because the types of paint (or ink rather) have very fine pigments. When using Createx for instance, the pigments are far more coarse and you additions or add water to the paint to make it behave properly.

Smokers could hold the tip area in their cigarette smoke fumes to see if the air cap is leaking (which results in pulsating jets of air and paint). Also make sure that the needle rocker is not turned outward so far that it blocks the needle fixation screw (which makes it impossible to spray just air - there is always a certain amount of paint coming out as soon as the trigger is pressed). Look at the needle tip as well, in particular if the airbrush is an occasion. Also look at the jet of paint and air coming out of the brush against a dark background with the light source directed toward you. The jet should be in line with the airbrush when looking at it from the side or from the top. If this is the case from both angles, then the needle and nozzle are correctly aligned.

If the trigger does not move smoothly, check if it is correctly placed in its seat of the airbrush's air regulator. If it is and still does not move in a smooth way, lube it with airbrush lube or vaseline. Also check the spring tension; experienced airbrush artists often prefer the spring to have as little tension as possible which allows them to use the airbrush for a long time before the index finger will be affected with cramp.

If you have a magnifying glass or microscope, check the needle tip and nozzle, to see if they're dirty, bent or damaged and if they are in-line with each other. If you look through the airbrush with the needle removed, you should be able to see all the way through it without any of the parts being off center. If this is not the case then there either is an incorrect setting or adjustment or there is a manufacturing flaw. A Paasche V#1 I recently bought had a paint cup which had a stub that was too long.... that blocked the needle. Incidents can always happen and from what I've read Badger has excellent customer service and so did Harder & Steenbeck as I've recently seen with an airbrush of a friend of mine who got his airbrush repaired (within the guarantee period) of which the air regulator part broke from the airbrush main housing.

But before contacting manufacturers make sure the airbrush is cleaned properly and assembled in the correct way. Or come to this forum for help...

You are so helpful - i'm extremely thankful to have you on this forum. Cheers Ignis
 

Cordyk

Sheriff Woody (Admington)
I have removed the SOLVED from the thread as that just applied to me at the beginning:)
 

Seamonkey

Air-Valve Autobot!
Hi Kevin, nice to meet you, I hate to hear of the problems you are having!! Badger is a great company and will help in any way possible to get this solved, I'm sure of it!! Wait a min..........

Lmao, I know I'm a little late on this but oh well, lol!!!!! I think this is the one thread that I never posted a comment in and just thought I would get one in, lol!!!
I had to do it, lol!!! :D :D ;)

Ps. I do stand by what I stated though, badger is a great company!!


Josh
 

Cordyk

Sheriff Woody (Admington)
Hi Kevin, nice to meet you, I hate to hear of the problems you are having!! Badger is a great company and will help in any way possible to get this solved, I'm sure of it!! Wait a min..........

Lmao, I know I'm a little late on this but oh well, lol!!!!! I think this is the one thread that I never posted a comment in and just thought I would get one in, lol!!!
I had to do it, lol!!! :D :D ;)

Ps. I do stand by what I stated though, badger is a great company!!


Josh

Ha ha thanks Josh for your concern....bit bloody late:)
My experience with the badger was a bit disappointing but it's not to say they are a bad brush, many people love them, but for me I don't think I could turn away from Iwata now.
Each to there own my friend, each to there own.
 

Seamonkey

Air-Valve Autobot!
Ha ha thanks Josh for your concern....bit bloody late:)
My experience with the badger was a bit disappointing but it's not to say they are a bad brush, many people love them, but for me I don't think I could turn away from Iwata now.
Each to there own my friend, each to there own.

I have 3 iwatas and 2 dagrs, i sold the badger i owned because it was a siphon feed. i feel the same about iwata, but September 31st I will have one shipped to me from Australia with paint!!!! Lol!!! I will be buying a Khrome no matter what, just to try it and that way I can stand behind my reviews a little more.


Josh
 
V

Visualfury

Guest
I just sent my Badger in for an overhaul today. I am hoping they can give it a good cleaning and make sure everything will seal. I cant wait to get it back and see how it works.
 
S

shirlzknight

Guest
Hi guys, first off I am a complete newcomer to airbrushing. I have got myself a Patriot 105 after reading up a lot of reviews and taking a shine to Badger. However I have only had my brush about a month and in that time only used it a maximum of a few hours. I have noticed a few issues with it. Air leakage on the screw above my quick release, more air leakage from the cone (first screw part on the tip) and last the finish has already worn off the inside of the cup and the trench at the bottom of the cup is brassy coloured. Any advice guys. All I can add is I give the brush a good clean between colour changes using airbrush cleaner. Thanks in advance :)
 
Top