Badger Patriot problem

[twood]

Hi all
I have been using a Paache Talon ever since I started this Hobby. Last week I went and spent my wad on a Badger Patriot 105-BWH. It came with the Fine (.3) set-up. I can not get this brush to spray. I have dismantled and cleaned and assembled a couple of times. It has not sprayed very well since I got it. I have put a loop on every part and it looks ok....
I can pull a pencil line (when my ability allows) with the Talon 3.8 set-up and the Badger just does not want to do the same with a .3. . I have been thru the reduction, air adjust ect. many times. I am using a new bottle of AA trans. blk and I know that the paint is good, because I can put the same paint in the Talon and it shoots fine.
I find my biggest problem is that it seems like a long travel on the trigger before paint starts to shoot. I went thru all the steps for this problem, but it still seem to vary.
This is only my second a/b and I will admit I probably missed something and I need your help......Please, please, please.... I think the Patriot should at least spray comparable to the Talon....or better with the finer needle....Are they that different?????
I have just used restorer on the parts. I am going to try again this afternoon. Wish me luck...this is getting frustrating....
Cheers and Thanx

 

[Don Wheeler]

I don't know what's causing your problem, but the 105 fine is actually .5mm. There is a super fine kit that is .35mm.

Don

 

[jagardn]

I can get some pretty fine lines with mine using the .5 and .75. I'd assume you probably have some buildup in the nozzle. Depending on how caked in it is. Restorer alone may not do it. Using a whittled down toothpick or running the needle along the inside of the nozzle may be required to get the blockage out.

 

[twood]

I don't know what's causing your problem, but the 105 fine is actually .5mm. There is a super fine kit that is .35mm.

Don

I bought it with the "f" on the end. And the box states .3. Now im thinking I didnt get what is said on the box......
It is a 105-BWH if that makes a difference....(oops just got it...brush with hose...)
I am really confused....I also picked up a "detail conversion kit" and it also has an "F" on it....so would a .3 be called detail? Its part #41-045
Cheers

 

[WhiteKnight]

This is what I found searching using the part number for the conversion kit: Sears.com

I only put one link up, but they all said the same thing, it would be a .4mm kit. For the stock one I didn't find any detail about it's actual size, but I would trust Don on this.

Hope it helps

 

[Don Wheeler]

Mine has an F on it, and it's .5mm. But, they may have made a change. You could contact Badger and ask them about it.

Don

 

[RebelAir]

Weird one and sounds like you've checked most the major issues that could cause this, but yer ya havent mixed up the nozzles or anything?..Have you compared the two needles side by side, not sure what they ship it with these days but does the same problem happen for each different set-up?..The super fine conversion kits needle has a much longer lead on the angle, the travel of the needle also seems a little strange as mine is quite responsive and I havent adjusted the spring, didnt really need to..Worse comes to worse m8 ya can always send it back, Badger will def take care of you as their customer service is pretty awesome, maybe drop a line to Ken and see what he reckons may be worth a try..Also have you tried pure water and checked whats happening with how it sprays with just that? GL and hope ya get it sorted..

 

[Immortal Concepts]

make sure the 3 holes in the head are cleaned thoroughly. You may also want to adjust the spray regulator. If it is too tight or loose, will cause issues, it has a sweet spot just like the one on the talons. If the paint isn't coming out until a halfway trigger pull, either the chuck isn't grabbing the needle or the needle isn't seated properly to begin with. Look at your tip, make sure it is sticking out of the nozzle to begin with. Then watch it as you pull back the trigger, it should go back in a fluid motion. If it isn't sticking all the way out, it isn't seating properly, if you are pulling back and the needle is delaying from pulling back, then the chuck isn't tight enough. I've had several badger airbrushes with similar problems and is the reason why I personally don't like badger. They are very inconsistent from my experience and not up to spec IMHO. Also make sure the trigger adjuster is tightened down as if it is too loose, will also cause a paint delay from the trigger having to pull back so far before actually actuating the needle.

 

[RebelAir]

I've had several badger airbrushes with similar problems and is the reason why I personally don't like badger. They are very inconsistent from my experience and not up to spec IMHO

Still got em? I'll have em LOL..But utterly, completely, fully disagree..I have never once seen this issue with a Badger..The chucks hold the needles fine, in fact one of the things I like about them is that the needle chuck only needs a light nip, never had one slip on me yet..But personal opinion is just that but if ya still have them feel free to send em my way, will let my students use em ..I hate on Iwata all the time LOL but I'd never say that they are not up to spec and too say such about Badger for me is going a little far, good for the right user and perhaps Badgers just don't agree with ya but they are IMHO the best brand on the market..Hands down LOL..All three of my main guns have never missed a beat, get treated like crap, never replaced a single element besides the odd dropped on needle (Still using the original nozzles) and still spraying fantastic after about 13-14 years of use..So perhaps you just got unlucky several times LOL

 

[Immortal Concepts]

Yup I went through 4 of them and dealt with ken personally. Great guy and great service without a doubt , just couldn't get the brushes to perform and even ken was puzzled. I think with my knowledge it wouldn't have been an issue. I found a lot manufacturing defects on most of them. I gave away and threw them away years ago sorry rebel .

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[RebelAir]

Awww bugger LOL..Thought I was in the running for some new guns LOLOL..What kind of defects outta interest..I thought ya comment was more on the chucks not grabbing and thats pretty easily fixed in any brand but not something I've ever seen..Skipping for me and spray issues are 9/10 user issues..Paint, pressure, junk in the gun and dozens of other potentials, its not something you see generally that can be blamed on a new gun or a brand in general..(besides the knock offs)..On the odd occasion for sure, any factory pumps out a dud or two but if its fine out of the box and works initially, it should still work 10 minutes later and is something a gun starts doing and shows no visible damage, surely its not a gun issue..I suppose I'm just over protective of Badger LOL as we all have our favs...

 

[twood]

Awww bugger LOL..Thought I was in the running for some new guns LOLOL..What kind of defects outta interest..I thought ya comment was more on the chucks not grabbing and thats pretty easily fixed in any brand but not something I've ever seen..Skipping for me and spray issues are 9/10 user issues..Paint, pressure, junk in the gun and dozens of other potentials, its not something you see generally that can be blamed on a new gun or a brand in general..(besides the knock offs)..On the odd occasion for sure, any factory pumps out a dud or two but if its fine out of the box and works initially, it should still work 10 minutes later and is something a gun starts doing and shows no visible damage, surely its not a gun issue..I suppose I'm just over protective of Badger LOL as we all have our favs...

Hence the original questions. I dont know everything...
This is my first Badger and only my second a/b in 1 1/2 years. I have heard nothing but good about this brand. I had alot of questions about size....I now know that the extra kit I bought is a .4 and no one knows anything about the Patriot being shipped with a .3.
Ive done some research on this and get alot of different info...Thats why I come here.....
Thanx.....interesting
Cheers

 

[RebelAir]

Hahaha dont mind me m8, just going off on the usual tangent..LOL Was posing the question to immortal on what they found out..might help in your situation..One prob with the net m8 is we cant see it physically or the issues peeps talk about so ya bound at time on these kind of posts to get a lot of guessing as thata all really any of us can do for those having a struggle..guns skipping is the worst area you see this in as it can just be so many things going on or combinations of things..First and formost ya really need to check for us if it also does this with plain water..Does it also do it with both setups? Are you over drying or over using your air and drying the paint out on the needle tip or nozzle, are you painting in hot weather, straining your paint?..theres just so many things it can be LOL..Start with the water thing, it may really help identify if its just a paint or cleanliness issue...GL Twood, hope ya get it sorted m8

 

[WhiteKnight]

It's funny TWood because we are two Canadians we started airbrushing around the same time with the same brush, then we went with Badger for are second brush, I got a Badger SOTAR though it is a detail brush and has a .20mm needle and I love it had no problems with it.

 

[HCP-draggin]

The good news is that Badger customer service is great. Partly because they have lots of practice. .

This is part of my issue with Badger. Some work fine, some just won't work right at all. Paasche owners, don't get ****y, they have the same issue. I know a few airbrush artists who will buy Badger and Paasche parts 5 or 6 at a time, because they know at least 4 of the 6 will be too far out-of-spec to work in their airbrushes. Either I've been ridiculously lucky, or this just isn't a problem in other quality brands.

I'd really love to see Badger and Paasche start living up to the "Made in U.S.A." standards of precise production, but it just doesn't seem like they want to...

 

[RebelAir]

^Am honestly surprised to hear such, have been around the forums for quite a few years now and rarely hear that others are buying parts in such quantity. In fact never seen that in 8-10 yrs on the net, no doubt it does happen, not doubting ya but am surprised is all..Constantly see may buying Badgers and normally hear nothing but good, mine have lasted as I've said in many threads up to 10-12 yrs of constant work and I havent bought even one replacemnet nozzle or needle except the conversion kit..

I think these days to keep up with business, quality has slipped across all ranges unless your going to the higher end of the market but I wouldnt have thought it'd slip that much as again, its not often you hear about unhappy Badger owners, iwata's are another story though LOL...But maybe I just refuse to read or missed such postings LOL..

Now I do like to call people a bit silly when I can and yer if you know artists that are buying 5-6 spares so they get one that works, I'd call them exactly that..Why wouldn't they just buy and use a different brand?

Badger for the win LOLOL..

 

[Immortal Concepts]

Hence why I don't like badger and now you see I'm not the only one

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[WhiteKnight]

Maybe I've been lucky too, got Paasche Talon and ordered a fine conversion kit and had no problems and my SOTAR worked great from the moment I got it.

It could be that they work like sh*t too and I just don't know it since I have used nothing else LOL

 

[HCP-draggin]

^Am honestly surprised to hear such, have been around the forums for quite a few years now and rarely hear that others are buying parts in such quantity. In fact never seen that in 8-10 yrs on the net, no doubt it does happen, not doubting ya but am surprised is all..Constantly see may buying Badgers and normally hear nothing but good, mine have lasted as I've said in many threads up to 10-12 yrs of constant work and I havent bought even one replacemnet nozzle or needle except the conversion kit..

I think these days to keep up with business, quality has slipped across all ranges unless your going to the higher end of the market but I wouldnt have thought it'd slip that much as again, its not often you hear about unhappy Badger owners, iwata's are another story though LOL...But maybe I just refuse to read or missed such postings LOL..

Now I do like to call people a bit silly when I can and yer if you know artists that are buying 5-6 spares so they get one that works, I'd call them exactly that..Why wouldn't they just buy and use a different brand?

Badger for the win LOLOL..

People get really funny about their brands for some reason. .

I wouldn't say Badgers or Paasches are bad airbrushes, or that their bad companies, or anything like that. They both just share a market position that doesn't leave a whole lot of room in the profits for making any big improvements. I'd love to see either company really reinvest in making the best airbrushes in the world, and coming out with something actually new and original.

Basically, I'd pay more for an American-made micron than I would a Japanese one, all else being equal. The big question for them, though, is that if they really bring their manufacturing and R&D up to date, the price of their airbrushes will have to go up. So, would that alienate their traditional supporters into buying Chinese?

But, of course, with an American-made micron killer, you'd have the obstacle of getting me to believe that an American company actually made a micron killer, AND that they all worked, like they're supposed to, straight from the box. AND that the cups are soldered on properly, they all use the same parts, etc, etc. ;-)

 

[Immortal Concepts]

The newest MOJO is the closest thing to an American made micron killer but still takes knowing how to tweak it to work properly. It's hard for anything American to compete price wise as its just simply cheaper to outsource everything cause it's cheaper outside the US.

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