Baffling Problem with Iwata Eclipse HP-CS

[Baker7Zero]

Hi all, a total n00b question for you that I hope can get some help on:
I purchased Iwata Eclipse HP-CS a week ago (which is amazing) and am experiencing an issue that is frustrating/confusing me. Basically, occasionally, the Needle Chucking Guide gets stuck in the back position and the only way to bring it back is to undo the Needle Chucking Nut, which resets the needle and releases the tension on the needle spring. It seems that leads to the needle getting stuck in the nozzle and is very hard to remove. The airbrush is clean (including the nozzle) and light lubrication has been applied to the needle and trigger. I can consistently replicate this problem by pulling the trigger all the way back multiple times in quick succession or by pulling the needle in the Single Cut Handle all the way back and then releasing it (or by manually pulling Needle Chucking Guide all the way back and releasing it). Am I doing something wrong? I was able to replicate this problem with another airbrush, so I think it's definitely an operator error by me. Is it possible that by manually pulling Needle Chucking Guide all the way back and releasing it I am driving the needle into the nozzle? Am I not supposed to do that? Video included

Update: when I contacted Iwata support they think it may be paint build up near the Packing Screw. What could I be doing so wrong that gets that part so dirty with paint build-up (in two different airbrushes!) in just several weeks of use?

 

[Mr.Micron]

If your airbrush is clean and nothing is clogging the nozzle . First check to see if you have paint built up on the needle about where it would sit as it goes into the cup from the trigger side.
If not then check to see how tight you needle seal is, You should only feel a slight drag on the needle as it goes through that seal. If you have to use a lot of force it is too tight.
It is shown in the picture as #13 and you only needle a small flat tip screw driver to loosen it .

 

[Baker7Zero]

If your airbrush is clean and nothing is clogging the nozzle . First check to see if you have paint built up on the needle about where it would sit as it goes into the cup from the trigger side.
If not then check to see how tight you needle seal is, You should only feel a slight drag on the needle as it goes through that seal. If you have to use a lot of force it is too tight.
It is shown in the picture as #13 and you only needle a small flat tip screw driver to loosen it .View attachment 64144

Thank you for the tips.
The needle is clean.
As far as the needle seal, I will definitely take a look. My concern is that since I am experiencing this issue with two different airbrushes, that it's something I am doing wrong to make the needle packing screw dirty so quickly. Any ideas?

 

[Mr.Micron]

Are you cleaning and back flushing the brush after you finish painting for the day ?
The needle seal usually doesn't cause issues unless it is too tight or too loose . To tight holds the needle in place and the tension on the return spring isn't strong enough to push it back through ,Too loose you will see paint in the trigger area which means it is dried paint binding up the works.

 

[Baker7Zero]

Are you cleaning and back flushing the brush after you finish painting for the day ?
The needle seal usually doesn't cause issues unless it is too tight or too loose . To tight holds the needle in place and the tension on the return spring isn't strong enough to push it back through ,Too loose you will see paint in the trigger area which means it is dried paint binding up the works.

Here is my cleaning process:
Flush out all the paint out of the cup with water, then backflush until clean. I then fill the cup with airbrush cleaner that I spray through. I then take the brush apart and clean the cup, nozzle, and needle. Put them all together, test spraying with water, and I am done. Is that sufficient?
I don't think the seal is too tight, as I only feel slight drag (as you described) as the needle slides in.

 

[DaveG]

Yeah, don't do that! It is horrible for the brush to allow the needle to slam forward like that - especially if the needle is getting stuck in the nozzle!

Does it ever get stuck if you work the trigger back and forth in a normal fashion? Being intermittent like that, I do not think a dirty needle packing is at fault.

What I suspect is happening is that you are working the parts faster than they are intended to work, and you are catching the auxiliary lever (the part circled) out of position, and it is binding between the brush body, and it's retaining tabs on the needle chuck. When you release the chucking nut, you release the pressure on the chuck, allowing the lever to return to position.

 

[Baker7Zero]

Yeah, don't do that! It is horrible for the brush to allow the needle to slam forward like that - especially if the needle is getting stuck in the nozzle!

Does it ever get stuck if you work the trigger back and forth in a normal fashion? Being intermittent like that, I do not think a dirty needle packing is at fault.

What I suspect is happening is that you are working the parts faster than they are intended to work, and you are catching the auxiliary lever (the part circled) out of position, and it is binding between the brush body, and it's retaining tabs on the needle chuck. When you release the chucking nut, you release the pressure on the chuck, allowing the lever to return to position.

View attachment 64145

Hmmm....I feel that yes, it can get stuck when working the needle in a normal fashion, however, what you are saying makes sense. Is it possible that I damaged the airbrush?

 

[DaveG]

Hmmm....I feel that yes, it can get stuck when working the needle in a normal fashion, however, what you are saying makes sense. Is it possible that I damaged the airbrush?

If you could feel the needle stuck in the nozzle, then yes, it is quite possible you damaged the brush. Either by flaring the nozzle, or even worse, by splitting the tip of the nozzle. You should be able to tell by the spray pattern - if it is different than it was before, it would be time to say "uh-oh" .

 

[SiRoxx]

Thank you for the tips.
The needle is clean.
As far as the needle seal, I will definitely take a look. My concern is that since I am experiencing this issue with two different airbrushes, that it's something I am doing wrong to make the needle packing screw dirty so quickly. Any ideas?

Mine does this too if I pull the needle Chuck back and forwards. Essentially I learned just not to do that. I haven’t found that I gain anything by pulling the needle over just pulling the trigger all the way back for flushing.
I did more damage through novice cleaning in the first 6 months than I have done in the time since . It’s just something that happens sometimes.
I thought I was doing the right thing by tearing down the brush at the end of every session and spending 40 - 50 mins cleaning. I was wrong. Nowadays I empty the cup, wipe with some towel, pull the needle, wipe it with towel, flush with cleaner, fill the cup and use a soft paintbrush to scrub any stubborn paint, insert the needle, flush and keep flushing until it sprays clean into a paper towel... And I’m done. I’ll only go further if I have any problems.
Everybody eventually figures out what works for them. There’s a good video from Iwata on cleaning a brush. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here.


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[SiRoxx]

Got it.

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[Baker7Zero]

If you could feel the needle stuck in the nozzle, then yes, it is quite possible you damaged the brush. Either by flaring the nozzle, or even worse, by splitting the tip of the nozzle. You should be able to tell by the spray pattern - if it is different than it was before, it would be time to say "uh-oh" .

The more I think about it, the more I suspect you are 100% correct (making the airbrush work faster than they are intended to work, and catching the auxiliary lever out of position).

My next question is how can I tell if I damaged the nozzle and needle? How can I tell if the nozzle is flarred? For split, I am assuming I would see it?

 

[Baker7Zero]

Got it.

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Thank you, appreciate it

 

[Baker7Zero]

Mine does this too if I pull the needle Chuck back and forwards. Essentially I learned just not to do that. I haven’t found that I gain anything by pulling the needle over just pulling the trigger all the way back for flushing.
I did more damage through novice cleaning in the first 6 months than I have done in the time since . It’s just something that happens sometimes.
I thought I was doing the right thing by tearing down the brush at the end of every session and spending 40 - 50 mins cleaning. I was wrong. Nowadays I empty the cup, wipe with some towel, pull the needle, wipe it with towel, flush with cleaner, fill the cup and use a soft paintbrush to scrub any stubborn paint, insert the needle, flush and keep flushing until it sprays clean into a paper towel... And I’m done. I’ll only go further if I have any problems.
Everybody eventually figures out what works for them. There’s a good video from Iwata on cleaning a brush. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here.


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Thank you that helps! Do you think I damaged the airbrush with making the needle getting stuck over and over? How can I tell if I damaged the nozzle/needle?

Appreciate the help, thank you!

 

[DaveG]

Spray away. If it looks like it is working OK, then it probably is. If the pattern looks oddly shaped, or if you have paint the minute you press the trigger (without drawing it back) you might have issues.

 

[JackEb]

just make sure you hold the airbrush at right angles to the paper. spray gently, if its not a nice even circle then as Dave suggested it may be time for a new nozzle.
Have you noticed bubbles in the cup when you first start a paint session and you've loaded paint into the clean brush and try and paint ?

 

[SiRoxx]

Thank you that helps! Do you think I damaged the airbrush with making the needle getting stuck over and over? How can I tell if I damaged the nozzle/needle?

Appreciate the help, thank you!

It’s possible, but it’s equally possible that you didn’t. Like DaveG has said, give it a spray. If it sprays the same pattern and there’s no odd behaviour (machine gunning, spray pattern goes a way left or right of Center), then it’s fine. I must have gone through 2 or 3 needles and nozzles in the first months. Don’t beat yourself up, it gets better.


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[Baker7Zero]

Spray away. If it looks like it is working OK, then it probably is. If the pattern looks oddly shaped, or if you have paint the minute you press the trigger (without drawing it back) you might have issues.

gotcha, ty

 

[Baker7Zero]

just make sure you hold the airbrush at right angles to the paper. spray gently, if its not a nice even circle then as Dave suggested it may be time for a new nozzle.
Have you noticed bubbles in the cup when you first start a paint session and you've loaded paint into the clean brush and try and paint ?

Only when I'm backflushing or holding my finger over the nozzle cap (air on, paint off).

 

[Baker7Zero]

It’s possible, but it’s equally possible that you didn’t. Like DaveG has said, give it a spray. If it sprays the same pattern and there’s no odd behaviour (machine gunning, spray pattern goes a way left or right of Center), then it’s fine. I must have gone through 2 or 3 needles and nozzles in the first months. Don’t beat yourself up, it gets better.


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Ha, this is definitely a learning experience and I learn something new every day. For example, yesterday I discovered that when you try to disassemble the air valve, the little spring can fly out and you could spend 45 min looking for it....hypothetically

 

[DaveG]

gotcha, ty

These are things we all went through . The most important thing to do is get paint in the brush, and spray, spray, spray. No substitute for experience!