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Brush Decisions and a mask

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by V-Twin, Sep 9, 2018.


  1. V-Twin

    V-Twin Gravity Guru

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    Been looking at new Airbrushes on the multitude of sites around the net. One in particular caught my eye (well, lots actually but waaaaayyyy outa my price range presently).

    The one in question is the Iwata HP-C 50th Anniversary Limited Edition model, going for 185 GBP. Is it worth it compared to the PH-C Plus for 170-220 GBP (depending where you shop)?

    Also noted the Iwata Eclipse CS for either 133 or 175 GBP. And lastly, a real cheapy to compare (kinda) with, a BartSharp 186 (has a MAC valve), for 37 GBP. These are upgraded (build/tolerances etc) versions of the VEDA brushes but as they did not register the name, someone else did thus the original owners have gone out of business.

    Will any of these be as good or better as my H&S Evolution CR Plus 2in1 (0.2/0.4mm needles/nozzle set).

    And lastly, I don't use a face mask/respirator apart from a 3 quid cheapy when spraying a varnish coat, is it really necessary for non-toxic acrylics? If so, would a Force8 half mask with twin F8-112 filters be a good choice for 30 GBP (replacement filters are 15 quid).

    Any helpful points much appreciated.
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  2. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    The correct answer on the mask is yes it is required. Your very least toxic stuff.... a dust mask is fine.
    Next up like wicked...technically you need a respirator....How many of us always use one...????....just how bad is it not to...???
    We'll say i try not to make a daily habit of spraying without one. I have to wear mine so often though its really just habit now no matter what I spray. Tohugh ive been known to drop it when im outside doing a real long job where im only using wicked.
    If youre into the Hp-c plus id recommend looking at a gsi procon boy ps-289
    If your into the hp-c id recommend looking at a Rich or richpen in .3
    All of those are basically the same brush and in fact from the same manufacturer.
    Just without the premium for the name Iwata on the side
    All should be a shade "better" than a budget evolution... I think... but im a bit biased towards the japanese designs and a bit biased against the evolution which i believe is actually of more taiwanese origin than the rest of the H+S range.
    I havent used a lot of these so the "better" part is mostly conjecture and my analysis of general concensus so.... take it for what its worth
    As you have a pretty good quality brush already probably any big difference would come down to your personal preference
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  3. Jurien72

    Jurien72 Have Airbrush - Will Travel!

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    I think the first question is how much do you like the Evolution? Is there anything you wish it did better?
    I love the way my H&S brushes spray, but I don't have an Iwata to compare them to.
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  4. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

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    Robby has given a pretty comprehensive answer, which has covered all of the bases, I don’t have anything to add on the brush side of things. The respirator
    You’ve listed will be great as you could also use it if you use Solvents at any time. I have that mask and it’s pretty comfy. The first time I used Candy2o, the mask was pretty new, I was spraying fairly heavy with my Eclipse, and was surprised that the filters were tinted green when I was done. There was more overspray than I realised and I’m sure to use it every time now. Or at least the RZ mask.
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  5. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon!

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    You'll have the same quality of the machining ans spraying, but some different parts and cup. What's important here is the cup. On the bottom of the cup (in the AB body actually) it has long cavity, that actually give you a chance to use smaller amount of paint compared to C+. This feature also makes shorter paint channels that you're going to clean the AB completely after the sessions and while changing colours. Angle and size of C non plus is more convenient than C+ to hold an AB and look over the painting area while working.
    Generally, without any doubts, my preference is HP-C old school, the AB is just great. You can also have great details with it.

    I'd advise to look over almost the same model as BartSharp 186, bit with self centering nozzle, rather than with screwed in nozzle. If that's sold there.
    They've started to make better quality of machining , than in the past years and now their paint nozzles are made of stainless steel, at least what I got here.

    If the paint doesn't make any odors, that doesn't mean it doesn't produce any aerosols while sprayed through the AB. I don't think you'd like to catch them with your lungs:)
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  6. V-Twin

    V-Twin Gravity Guru

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    All, many thanks for input, much appreciated. I am asking because I probably think/feel that I might be missing out on something regards Airbrushes. Don't know why or what actually that would be, but 99% of people seem to have 2 or many more airbrushes at their disposal.

    I can understand having several perhaps for fast paced T-Shirt production, but for doing fine-art why would more than 2 be required?
    Even though I have 2 needles for my H&S Evolution CR+, I rarely use the 0.4mm except for varnishing the end product, thus use the .2mm for all my painting. I was thinking of the continuing with the H&S line and getting either just the 0.15mm needle/nozzle set for my existing brush or buy the Infinity Solo with the 0.15 setup so I have something that would produce really fine lines, which I believe @Jurien72 has.

    I guess in all reality, I probably don't need another Airbrush as what I have is already a decent item and its my skill levels that need to be worked on.
    hmmmmm, think I have just work/talked myself out of a problem here.... maybe.

    As for the respirator, thanks again, and thanks SiRoxx for confirmation on the Force8, guess I will be purchasing that one now.
    I did notice some paint had gone up my nose the other day after I had been painting (for evidence), a rare beastly sighting that I think had broken
    free from its chains (Daenerys will not be happy).

    cheers all.
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  7. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon!

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    For a simple reason of being the time savers. I haven't done any paid art (or custom) work for now, but I have far more than two dozens of ABs for the reason as I'm aimed to the custom paint business, if it's can be called so.

    Here you've answered your question yourself. The problem is the paint will not gone up your lungs, it will go to your blood stream, then blood flow will go to you kidneys to be cleaned off the thing that aren't going to be in the blood, then all paint garbage will go you know where. It's very simplified what's happening with breathed in paint particles inside you.
    Simple solution for this wouldn't happen is the respirator.
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  8. twood

    twood Elite Member! Elite Member! Very Likeable!

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    I really can't give any input about the Airbrushes, but I can on masking up....
    I use two different types. It all depends on what I am spraying. For general airbrushing, I use a RZ mask and for spraying clear coats and massive base coats, I use a dual cartridge respirator.
    I must admit, sometimes when I am spraying very little, I will just have a fan moving air with windows open. But this also depends on the weather outside....
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  9. V-Twin

    V-Twin Gravity Guru

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    @twood and @Vladimir many thanks for info. I am painting in a corner of my garage, all doors closed. But last 2 times I have sprayed Com-Art Varnish I have had both ends of the garage open to let air flow through, that helped massively with getting rid of the strong smell and the voluminous clouds of mist. I think I will be getting the Force8 with 2 x F8-112 A1P2 filters, probably from Airbrushes.com (29.75 GBP).

    Side note: thanks to (Pappa) Freds video/recipe, I have just ordered Kaolin, and Titanium Dioxide powders to do my own clayboard stuff so I can try some scratching and see what all that is about.
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  10. Squishy

    Squishy Queen Clown Slayer Mod

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    @V-Twin I only have two brushes and have used them for both fine art and custom auto. It's enough for me. Some people like to have a variety I think just because they like airbrushes (you know who you are lol), or prefer a siphon in some situations, or don't like siphons but want to have several colours on the go at once so they don't have to keep changing.
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  11. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon!

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    BTW, one thing I'd like to add. If you'll be thinking about microns whether to buy CM-C or CM-C+, I'd say the same good things on CM-C as have said about old HP-C and would add two more minuses to CM-C+, they're MAC valve and longer body, both this features make the tool inconvenient for detail work. CM-C is much more convenient and easier in cleaning and colour changing. For the spared money of not buying CM-C+ anyone can buy any type of AB inline MAC valve. Just my point of view.
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  12. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    I would recommend a mask for when you are painting, I don't always wear mine due to the low psi and minimal overspray but we should wear them all the time we're painting. RZ masks are great, but for heavy stuff (solvents or candies) where your blasting it on I'd definitely have a proper respirator with cartridges. Devilbiss Valuair Half mask at Sprayguns direct is less than £20 and is a good one. Airbrushes, not had a H+S so can't say what they're like but I can say the Eclipse HP-CS from sprayguns direct £132 is around the cheapest i've seen, it has a C cup, we all like those :p and is good for heavy plastering on or quite detailed work once you build up your skills, whatever your skill level it will last a lifetime. Don't go cheap you WILL buy twice as the old saying goes..

    Lee
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  13. V-Twin

    V-Twin Gravity Guru

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    Squishy, what you say is kinda what I was thinking too, but instead of 2 brushes I got 2 needle sizes instead, so kinda guess in a round about way you could say I have 2 brushes. Just thinking I might be missing out on something regards Iwata kit as just about everyone seems to have one model or other of them.

    Vladimir, thanks for you input, much appreciated. I am not sure what I will do, but Christmas is not that far off now, so you never know, might get something then, but do I 'really' need another brush? hhhmmmmm hold on that thought.

    Jord001, Thanks for info too. You seem to be in same boat as SiRoxx (and others too) regards definitely using a respirator. Thus I am gonna get the Force8. As for the AB, yea I always look for the C cup, better for holding more fluid :laugh: when the need arises for bigger projects. Looking round the net, I did not realise there were so many makes that look like Iwata and that state they are 'just as good as 'famous' named brands' but half the cost (or less).

    Anyway, I have plenty of time to decide if I need to go down the multiple brush route or not so not panicking about this, more a real world usage fact gathering exercise from the 'pro's' on here :):thumbsup:
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  14. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

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    sometimes it comes down to right tool for the job.
    You're not going to lay down a large backgound with a micron, and your not going to find doing hair lines with a .5 needle an easy task.

    For many the Eclipse HP-C and the High Performance B are good 'go to' brushes.
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  15. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Pretty much all the made in japan brands, arent lying. Iwata doesnt make their own airbrushes...just like every other spraygun manufacturer they just commission them from an airbrush maker. In this case Rich is actually the OEM.
    According to u.s. customs iwata medea US recieves airbrushes from one place ...and its not anest iwata japan...Its Rich. They also hold basically every patent relating to iwata airbrushes for the last 20+years
    There are paper trails enough to trace most of the other brands back to rich as well.
    GSI creos, tamiya, rich, richpen...etc.
    Correlating what models are identical to what, or what little differences there are is a bit more complex sometimes...
    Two brushes is always good...a backup is nice.
    You may not even realize which will be your backup....but you gravitate to one or another more.
    Then find yourself using one the other more for given purposes
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  16. V-Twin

    V-Twin Gravity Guru

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    Jacky, ooooh thanks for that. I guess what I am also thinking of is what Squishy said in one of her posts to someone way back, in that I don't want to be swapping between 2 differing models all the time, use one and get used to it (same with paint make). I guess once one is practiced at painting, then one can move up the ladder a bit more for something a little more 'precise'.
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  17. V-Twin

    V-Twin Gravity Guru

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    Wow, that I did NOT know. So as my H&s is German made, that is out of the list then.
    OK, so as they are all from the same factory, I guess they must switch named batches on the line every so often to keep supply of each going.
    This then begs the question, why the hell are Iwata's soooo expensive? Materials must be the same I take it, so that narrows down to possible finer tolerances on the HP/CS/CM lines?

    thanks for the snippet Robby, I have seen peeps on here mention things about paper trails (probably you actually) in old post, but I did not fully understand, now I do.
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  18. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    My guess is the expense comes from a warranty, a huge dealer network, customer service, repackaging and because they can...things like that.
    I have a mac tools impact wrench aw480q....It is in fact an aircat 1000tc....The parts breakdown when i order rebuild kits actually is on the same page and the only different part is the handle /housing
    New price for an aircat $145....New price for the Mac tools gun $345...... Same deal
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  19. V-Twin

    V-Twin Gravity Guru

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    Bloody hell, that's daylight robbery!!!! And yea I get ya on what you are saying. So, much food for thought on this then. Plenty of time to decide I guess.

    Thanks.
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  20. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Not that it really matters but, i strongly suspect the evolution is largely made in taiwan.... and its also sold by the name airtex beauti 4.
    Airtex is an H+S partner and sells the whole h+s line in japan, the only one they rename is the evolution.
    Airtex does their manufacturing in taiwan. End of the day they still by all accounts are a quality brush so... whatever just a point of interest i guess.
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