Bubbling complication. :|

[Brushman16]

Hi everyone, first post here. I've been looking for solutions for a problem I've been having with my airbrush that I bought recently. (1.5 months ago). I think I'll best find a solution here, this seems like a pretty large forum.

So, to start, my airbrush is of Revell's Basic Kit With Compressor. It does not have a model (though I can get parts from Revell online)

I'm made a Reddit post that a guy is helping as much as he can on;
https://www.reddit.com/r/modelmakers/comments/540q91/airbrush_problems/
Here's some pictures of the pieces;
http://imgur.com/a/TtDdf


But I'll give a description of what troubles I'm having:

So, at some point in the last week when I was using my airbrush, I (naively, first time airbrush-user) tried to fish my needle through my nozzle to clean it out. I may have enlarged the exit from the nozzle and I recall shaving about 1mm off from the tip.

So now what's happening is that when I have the airbrush completely set up, and tipped some water in the cup, I'm finding that the water is bubbling, though to various extents depending on how far I have the needle pressed up the brush.

I've found that when I remove the needle cap, the bubbling stops completely. Though I can't spray anything at all without the needle cap. There's definitely air coming from the metal piece that covers the nozzle and screws into the airbrush.

The bubbling will only aggrivate when I pull back the trigger. However I can spray the water in the cup (though much more comes out than before this problem started) if I cover my thumb over the cup.

The needle sticks about 2-3mm out from the needle cap now without forcing it.

I noticed that when I twirl the nozzle (which is a floating nozzle btw) around in its seat in the airbrush that I feel scratching with the inside. It only sits loosely in the area it's meant to.

I've already soaked all the parts in the thinner than came with the set. I've also soaked them in white spirits. It's practically as clean as when I bought it.

 

[markjthomson]

Hi @Brushman16 - bubbling back in the cup is either a blockage or an air leak. First check for obvious blockages then try sealing the threads with chapstick for a start. Also put some chapstick on the mating surfaces of the floating nozzle. Looking at the photos give all the components a good clean as well. If you have shortened or damaged the nozzle you're better off replacing it.

By the look of it it's an Iwata knock off, that may cause more problems then the brush is worth.

Now, can I get you to go along to the introductions section and say Hi properly? What part of the world are you in? What sort of art/airbrush do you do? Check out the nettiquette page there as well.

http://www.airbrushforum.org/introductions/

http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/introducing-netiquette.8799/

Cheers Mark

 

[Brushman16]

Hi @Brushman16 - bubbling back in the cup is either a blockage or an air leak. First check for obvious blockages then try sealing the threads with chapstick for a start. Also put some chapstick on the mating surfaces of the floating nozzle. Looking at the photos give all the components a good clean as well. If you have shortened or damaged the nozzle you're better off replacing it.

By the look of it it's an Iwata knock off, that may cause more problems then the brush is worth.

Now, can I get you to go along to the introductions section and say Hi properly? What part of the world are you in? What sort of art/airbrush do you do? Check out the nettiquette page there as well.

http://www.airbrushforum.org/introductions/

http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/introducing-netiquette.8799/

Cheers Mark

My, where are my manners. XD
This has been causing me quite a bit of grief recently that I've forgotten my introductions. I'll make a thread over there right away.

Thanks for the help. I'll get something to seal those threads up and see if that helps. I'm almost certain it's not a blockage.

 

[jord001]

Hi Brushman, welcome to the forum, It would be fantastic if you could pop over to the introductions section and tell us more about yourself, what paints you use what equipment you have what your interested in and what you would like to paint etc etc, it all helps us to guide you in the right direction.
http://www.airbrushforum.org/introductions/

As for your airbrush, im not familiar with the model but they are all pretty much the same. Your nozzle in the pic looks damaged on the end, this will not help. Have you replaced the nozzle? Have you checked the needle? Is it bent or has a hook on the end? It may need replacing as well. These are the first things to check and if damaged at all they need to be replaced. I'm sure the others will all ask questions too.

lee

 

[jord001]

Haha, Maek beat me to it.

 

[Brushman16]

lee[/QUOTE]

Haha, Maek beat me to it.

hehe, too slow.
I'm new to the airbrushing scene so I've got no other parts to play with, and the ones issued by Revell are surpisingly expensive.
I'll be going to see if I can get it fixed next week, if I can't do so before then. I'll probably need other parts to see exactly what the problem is.

 

[markjthomson]

Snooze you lose...

 

[JackEb]

at 32 pound for the replacement needle / nozzle set you would have been better off getting an Iwata Neo / revolution, the parts would have only cost you 18 pound (apologies my keyboard doesn't have the Pound symbol)

If you are willing to throw good money after bad at it then by all means just get the replacement kit and start fresh. No disrespect intended but learn how to dismantle the brush for cleaning, you should be using thinners to clean the brush properly and if that is what is still sitting in your cup then I'm betting that there is a whole heap more junk further towards the needle.

If you've damaged the nozzle then there is no coming back /making do with it. cut your losses and buy a 'spares' kit or a half decent brush with cheaper spares. (just make sure it fits your air hose.)

I think its one of those cases where the brush is cheap enough but the spares will keep you broke.

 

[RebelAir]

Out of interest, why did you shave the nozzle? Not something normally done. Likely its not actually sealing againts the needle, burred possibly or you've broken the engine that runs the gun..the venturi.. Sealing the head assembly threads may help with some of the bubbling but dunno if it will ever work the same again..With a bit of fiddling it may but may just be worth buying a cheap replacement gun if modelling is your main thing..but without some experimentation or gun in hand its hard to say. You may find a replacement cheaper than the parts you need as jackeb stated..

 

[Squishy]

Hi Brushman. Sorry to say that it sounds like you will have flared your nozzle. Your needle is now not seating properly, and that will def need replacing. Not sure if you meant you shaved off 1 mm from the needle or the nozzle, but either is going to affect the airflow, and will greatly affect the performance of the brush. But air in the cup could also be from air getting through the threads at the front, and as mentioned, beeswax or similar can help with that. and also if you have soaked parts, there may also be damage to o rings, which can let in air, and if the needle packing seal (between the cup and trigger area of the brush) is not teflon, that seal will be damaged too, and will allow paint to get into the back of the brush. Those spares sound crazy expensive for what is basically a knock off Iwata brush.

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/revell-basic-airbrush-set-compressor/

The following is just my opinion but - Is your set something like this??? If so I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think you have spent quite a bit on something that possibly isn't suitable. I'm guessing you are wanting to paint models etc? Hard to advise without knowing for sure, but the compressor looks tankless, meaning it will probably pulse air trying to keep up with the airbrush, so won't give a consistent air flow which means paint will not flow evenly. To try and keep up it will run continuously - however as it is probably oil less it may get hot pretty and cut out til it cools. If you are painting small models and are stopping and starting frequently, this may not be an issue, but for anything else, will cause problems.

The brush as mentioned looks like a knock off. The nozzle looks like a copy of the Iwata eclipse range, which are very good, however knock offs are very hit and miss. Sometimes they work ok, sometimes not at all. They do not have the same precision quality of machining, and are made from inferior materials, making them very easy to damage. Even if they work well the first few times, once cleaned or taken apart, they are never the same again unfortunately. Even if this one was working well when you first bought it, replacing the nozzle, probably the needle and any o rings sounds like it is the cost of the whole brush, and I think I would give it a miss. By the time you had done that, and then waited to see if it performed well, you might as well buy another brush. Especially as there's no saying how long its performance will last, and you may have to replace parts again. I fell into a similar trap when I started, thinking I didn't want to pay a lot until I knew if I liked ABing, and ended up spending way more in the long run. If you like this Iwata style, then I recommend the Iwata eclipse range, they are the most versatile, long lasting, hard wearing (within reason, no floor diving etc) workhorse of a brush for the money. Not the cheapest, nor by far the most expensive, but will last forever, and the parts while not cheap, are certainly cheaper than the revel, and you'll rarely need them. The eclipse can do very fine detail with practice, but if your models are particularly small and detailed you may want to think about a dedicated detail brush, but you will need quality paints for that.

Those paints say they are suitable for airbrush, but also sound like they are for general painting too. They may be great, (they are certainly cheap, which is good) I've never used them, but I will say that I don't know anyone else who does either, and a proper airbrush only specific paint is likely going to be better. It doesn't say whether they are light fast, (to stop fading), and say it takes 3 hours between coats (thats for normal painting I think, but not sure airbrush paints are pretty much instant), nor how tough they are,(if you are using models for gaming for example, will it scratch of wear of easily) or if the mild solvents in them are compatible with any kind of clearing. This is just speculation on my part, it may be worth posting a thread to see if anyone else has used them and what they think

 

[Brushman16]

Hmmm... looks like this gun is a lost cause. XD

Can anyone recommend any kits in the €100 price range? And will the compressor that I have at the moment still be useable on a gun in the future?

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

 

[Malky]

Hmmm... looks like this gun is a lost cause. XD

Can anyone recommend any kits in the €100 price range? And will the compressor that I have at the moment still be useable on a gun in the future?

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

We normally don't recommend kits at all because they generally give all the problems you're having now, for 100 quid you would actually be pushed to buy a decent brush, so if you want better quality than you have now, you'll need to accept upwards of 150 quid for a brush and upwards of 100 quid for a decent compressor, I'm not familiar with the revel compressor but I little faith that it is any good for anything other than tiny short timed model projects, buying kits is just throwing good money way, you would be better to save up and buy a good brand name brush and better compressor, even compressors from B&Q and such places are good enough if noise isn't an issue, although to work an airbrush some adapters are needed.

Have a look around at brushes such as the Badger patriot, the Harder & Steenbeck ultra or Evolution or the Iwata Eclipse, these are all reasonably priced starter brushes and all carry a guarantee and parts are easy to find.

 

[markjthomson]

Yes, two things you don't want to skimp on... the brush and the compressor. Check out the Iwata eclipse (or Neo if you can't afford the eclipse)

 

[RebelAir]

Badgers are a good starter gun as the parts are generally much cheaper than some other options, the patriot mentioned can also be customized down the track with a fine line conversion kit which when experience or you have the desire may extend the ability of the brush for you..The iwatas mentioned are also good brushes to start out with, most compressors are fine for most airbrushes though you may have to find the right connectors etc. likely a compressor may not be needed but don't know what you have. Some are little more than a glorified tyre pump (especialluy in modelling ranges) and can pulsate the air which isnt good for fine art but may be fine for base coating models and the like, but the airbrush atm is the important bit, the compressor you have will likely get you through until you can look at upgrading if such is needed. But still want to know why you shaved the nozzle LOL, am intrigued.

 

[basepaint]

My, where are my manners. XD
This has been causing me quite a bit of grief recently that I've forgotten my introductions. I'll make a thread over there right away.

Thanks for the help. I'll get something to seal those threads up and see if that helps. I'm almost certain it's not a blockage.

Almost certain? If there's Any doubt clean it again just to make sure.

 

[Malky]

Yes, two things you don't want to skimp on... the brush and the compressor. Check out the Iwata eclipse (or Neo if you can't afford the eclipse)

I would recommend the H&S ultra over the Neo, mainly because the Neo has upped in price but is still a bit iffy and parts cost as much as any low range Iwata so the Ultra is better price wise if the Eclipse is out of bounds, but the Eclipse is the one to aim for without a doubt

 

[Brushman16]

I've found Iwata selling the Iwata Eclipse with a bundle for it;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eclipse-Gr...&qid=1474904993&sr=8-1&keywords=Iwata+Eclipse
I've also noticed that there's a CS and BS model of the Eclipse. Is there much difference?

Should I be looking to have waranty when buying these? does it matter too much?

Also what's the difference in the step-down to the Neo from the Eclipse?

Can I also ask for some different opinions on the brushes mentioned above? (Iwata Neo, Iwata Eclipse, Badget Patriot, H&S Ultra)

It's looking like the Iwata Eclipse is the one I'm aiming for. I'll need to learn to be more careful with cleaning out airbrushes in the future.
Something that's bothering me though at the moment is of how the comressor I have at the moment will work with a new airbrush that I buy.
There's no threads or anything for an adapter to attach onto where the air comes out. It's just a round plastic jut coming from the compressor.
This is/was fine with the Revell airbrush as the hose is vinyl and stretches a bit but I don't know how it will work with a new airbrush.
Will the vinyl hose work with a different airbrush or will it be able to stretch enough to attach onto said new airbrush?

 

[Brushman16]

Almost certain? If there's Any doubt clean it again just to make sure.

Will do.

Badgers are a good starter gun as the parts are generally much cheaper than some other options, the patriot mentioned can also be customized down the track with a fine line conversion kit which when experience or you have the desire may extend the ability of the brush for you..The iwatas mentioned are also good brushes to start out with, most compressors are fine for most airbrushes though you may have to find the right connectors etc. likely a compressor may not be needed but don't know what you have. Some are little more than a glorified tyre pump (especialluy in modelling ranges) and can pulsate the air which isnt good for fine art but may be fine for base coating models and the like, but the airbrush atm is the important bit, the compressor you have will likely get you through until you can look at upgrading if such is needed. But still want to know why you shaved the nozzle LOL, am intrigued.

Sorry, forgot to mention this earlier. XD
I was using the needle of the airbrush (naively. I had/have no idea how fragile these parts can be) to clean out the inside of the nozzle, fishing it in, like.
I think I split the tip of the nozzle and somehow ended up shortening it. The piece is so small I can't be sure of exactly how it happened.

Hard to advise without knowing for sure, but the compressor looks tankless, meaning it will probably pulse air trying to keep up with the airbrush, so won't give a consistent air flow which means paint will not flow evenly. To try and keep up it will run continuously - however as it is probably oil less it may get hot pretty and cut out til it cools. If you are painting small models and are stopping and starting frequently, this may not be an issue, but for anything else, will cause problems.

I've nothing else to compare how 'smooth' the air consistency is to but when using my current airbrush the air never fluctuated, and the compressor only heated up mildly. It has rubber pegs to keep it from the surface of what it's on.

 

[Malky]

I've found Iwata selling the Iwata Eclipse with a bundle for it;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eclipse-Gravity-AIRBRUSH-Dual-Action-Bundles/dp/B00IC0BYHI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474904993&sr=8-1&keywords=Iwata Eclipse
I've also noticed that there's a CS and BS model of the Eclipse. Is there much difference?

Should I be looking to have waranty when buying these? does it matter too much?

Also what's the difference in the step-down to the Neo from the Eclipse?

Can I also ask for some different opinions on the brushes mentioned above? (Iwata Neo, Iwata Eclipse, Badget Patriot, H&S Ultra)

It's looking like the Iwata Eclipse is the one I'm aiming for. I'll need to learn to be more careful with cleaning out airbrushes in the future.
Something that's bothering me though at the moment is of how the comressor I have at the moment will work with a new airbrush that I buy.
There's no threads or anything for an adapter to attach onto where the air comes out. It's just a round plastic jut coming from the compressor.
This is/was fine with the Revell airbrush as the hose is vinyl and stretches a bit but I don't know how it will work with a new airbrush.
Will the vinyl hose work with a different airbrush or will it be able to stretch enough to attach onto said new airbrush?

The only real difference is the BS has a smaller cup, but does the job otherwise, if you want lay down loads of paint the bigger cup is probably better, I have the side feed version or SBS, whichever you chose they all excellent brushes and ideal all rounders, I chose the SBS so I could but extra cups for quicker colour changes.

The bundle in your link isn't a bad deal at all, the mac valve is handy to have, but be very very careful of those little bottle washer type brushes, you wouldn't want to go poking around in your nozzle with those

 

[Malky]

OH and check the tutors airbrush maintenance video on youtube that will give you enough knowledge on caring for your brush, eclipse is ridiculously easy to keep clean