Can you use 4030 createx undercoat clear on enamel paint?

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baevans11

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I'm trying to find out if I can use createx 4030 undercoat clear on top of Custom Color airbrush paint? (Which is a fully solvent based paint) I've been painting rc helicopter canopies using createx colors and wicked colors and no matter how well I sand, prep or coat the fineline tape almost always pulls the paint up. I'm switching to solvent based paint and just want to know if I can use the intercoat clear. Thx for any help.
 
I am not sure how you want to use the intercoat clear .
are you using an adhesion promoter first ?
 
4030 is a mix additive. designed to improve flow. it is neither an undercoat or a clear coat.

As Mr.Micron has stated. you need to prep properly or any paint will pull up.

several members here have pained RC models/ plastic helmets so I'm sure someone can give you the exact process to reduce tape lift.

@Malky, I know you use to do Helicopter canopies, can you shed any light on what the prep and paint you used. It seems silly to switch paints if you already have the water based ones.
 
I am not sure how you want to use the intercoat clear .
are you using an adhesion promoter first ?
I was advised that it would be good to add to basecoats and spray between coats to protect paint while using fineline tape. I am sanding with 400grit sandpaper and using a tack cloth before spaying. I am also washing the canopies with soap and water prior to painting. Even painting very light coats and carefully pulling the tape back on itself I still get lift. I am under the impression that this doesn't happen when using solvent based paint.
 
4030 is a mix additive. designed to improve flow. it is neither an undercoat or a clear coat.

As Mr.Micron has stated. you need to prep properly or any paint will pull up.

several members here have pained RC models/ plastic helmets so I'm sure someone can give you the exact process to reduce tape lift.

@Malky, I know you use to do Helicopter canopies, can you shed any light on what the prep and paint you used. It seems silly to switch paints if you already have the water based ones.

I was doing fibre glass repairs to the helicopter canopies after they had been in a crash or got damaged in transit, I started airbrushing at the time to reinstate the original design or apply a new design if the owner wished, I had been painting them by hand previously and I believe I only actually airbrushed four of them one of which was my own, all I did was sand the entire canopy after it's repair and subsequent epoxy filler back to its original shape, I then applied a water based multi primer by hairy brush, I made my own fine line tape out of the same tape I use for my paintings/drawings, I then used Vallejo model paints for the design mostly fluorescent colours to make them easier to see in flight, they were cleared with simple 1k water based varnish, I did these the quickest and cheapest way possible because the folks who flew them would generally crash them again within weeks, so expensive systems were pointless and since the helicopters were unmanned there were no dangers involved.

After starting airbrushing I realised the airbrush could be used for art I quickly switched from models to art, I always refused to do helmets or automotive stuff becsuse of the complicated painting systems and even the legal implications in the case of helmets, for me the easiest way to avoid compromising the shell of a helmet is to simply just leave the thing alone.

So I'm not much use in areas other than normal artwork on paper, canvas or gessoed boards, I bought a small bottle once of CI to try out and lobbed the bottle within the first 10 minutes of opening it, I stuck to paints that could be thinned with water, and the old 4011 reducer went straight for my lungs just sniffing it in the bottle:eek:
 
If your tape is lifting either there is not enough tooth for the paint to grip on to - needs scuffing, a lower layer of paint is not dry, you are leaving the tape too long and any build up at the tapes edge lifts up with the tape, or your tape is too high tack.
 
If your tape is lifting either there is not enough tooth for the paint to grip on to - needs scuffing, a lower layer of paint is not dry, you are leaving the tape too long and any build up at the tapes edge lifts up with the tape, or your tape is too high tack.

LOL I have to confess I didn't read the first post before adding my last post, I just responded to Jackie's tago_O but now I've read the first post and realise the thread is about paint lifting with the masking tape, you covered all the important possible reasons for this squish, I would only add that a good scuff and clean at every phase is important, avoid mixing paint systems, for example if you are using auto air, stick with all the base coats, intercoats and additives that are made for this system, some brands and systems will often not adhere well to other systems, the tape is also important, I tried and tested several different tapes before finding one that didn't lift a little paint, it's generally hit and miss with this type of work.

I'm assuming these canopies are of fibre glass construction, if they are plastic as in some smaller or cheaper helicopter models this can also be a reason for the paint lifting, while there are multi primers that can be used on fibreglass and plastic, they don't work on all types of plastic, anything with "poly" in front of it such as polyester or polyurethane does not adhere well to epoxy fibreglass without an epoxy primer.

Photos of exactly what's happening would be handy here and is your paint lifting all the way back to base/bare model or just certain layers?
 
I was advised that it would be good to add to basecoats and spray between coats to protect paint while using fineline tape. I am sanding with 400grit sandpaper and using a tack cloth before spaying. I am also washing the canopies with soap and water prior to painting. Even painting very light coats and carefully pulling the tape back on itself I still get lift. I am under the impression that this doesn't happen when using solvent based paint.
It can happen with any paint . Proper prep work is need with any paint and most plastic do need an adhesion promoter even with urethane .
Lifting occurs when the paint does not bind with that it is being painted on or the paint is not 100% cured out . I have done tape outs on Plastic, Wood, Metal and even Glass using wicked with out issue , The few times I had any issue it was due to me not prepping it right .
 
It can happen with any paint . Proper prep work is need with any paint and most plastic do need an adhesion promoter even with urethane .
Lifting occurs when the paint does not bind with that it is being painted on or the paint is not 100% cured out . I have done tape outs on Plastic, Wood, Metal and even Glass using wicked with out issue , The few times I had any issue it was due to me not prepping it right .
Well what can I do other than washing the canopy with soapy water then sanding it with 400 grit first one way then the other? I spray very light coats especially the first few. Would spraying a coat of the intercoat clear alone first help?
 
Painting on plastic without some sort of a primer is risky and almost never works. I would suggest trying the Autobourne sealers from Createx.
Clean, degrease, skuff using red scotch pad (or equivalent grade sandpaper), clean, degrease again, then the sealer. Put on allowing each coat to dry to a flat finish. You are good to go.
I did this on an e-bike and the sealer is bulletproof....Alot of masking and not one pull up
Cheers
 
Yes if you aren't/don't want to use a plastic primer for some reason (weight perhaps?) then definitely try Autobourne sealers. They can go direct to plastic, and if you match the sealer as close to the base colour you want to use, you can not only save paint, but reach the colour you want quicker with just a couple of light layers. (again saving weight if that's an issue.)
 
The others have given great advice as far as prep concerns and when to apply tape.

As far as the original question whether you can use water based paint over and/or under solvent based systems... yes, you can. I did it for years. It's a good idea to try it on a test panel first to confirm. I never had any issues airbrushing small portions of water based or solvent based colors over the other, but I don't know what you're using. As far as using a water based intercoat to cover or protect solvent based work... I wouldn't recommend it. Use a solvent based intercoat and use the same system as your other layers. Mixing solvent based systems can lead to major failures if you don't know what you're doing.
 
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