Createx Illustration Grey Scale (Oil and Lead) annoyance...

Kim McCann

Mac-Valve Maestro!
Some time back I bought a set of the CI Grey Scale. Usually mix my own, but I thought it might be nice to have premix handy for when I am lazy.

I have to say, these have annoyed the heck out of me. They separate almost instantly, the white settling out of suspension, have utterly ludicrous tip dry and through my trusty micron, like to slow and surge like there's chunks in the paint, near constantly. Their #9, which is almost black for example will start to spray, then within a few seconds, start to slow to a crawl, and then pressure builds up and they surge again, with inevitable splatter. Pick up black, flows like a dream. Pick up pure white, flows like a dream. The entire greyscale paints however seem to flow like crap through a micron, even over reduced to the point it's almost water.

Then there is seeding in 4013 and 4012. Ever. Single. One.

I have to filter paint constantly, so any dreams of a handy shortcut are gone.

What gives? Has anyone else encountered this?

Flows much better through an eclipse, but it's next to useless with either my CM-C+, or CM-SB or the CM-Takumi. It's like the pigment isn't nearly as finely ground as in the other CI paints.

Is this actually by design? It is only meant for larger nozzle sizes?

It's frustrating, as I have pretty much the entire range of CI and these are the only ones that give me grief.

It's reminding me of why I switched from Wicked years ago, when the seeding problem with a whole run of them was figuratively driving me mad. 4013 reducer fixed that, so I can use them again, but I fell in love with Illustration in the meantime.

But 4013 doesn't fix it with the greyscale.

I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this. It's possible I just got a bad set, but that seems unlikely.

Thoughts? Feedback? Suggestions for a better reducer for them?
 
I have a few of the Neutral Greys and I’ve been finding them really good to work with. I can’t remember if I have used them through my Micron though. I had found flow and tip dry better than a lot of the regular range.
I’ve been mixing 2:1 with 4050 and reducing 1:1 with 4011 at 35 - 40 psi.
I don’t have anything helpful to suggest other than adding what I’ve been doing.


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I have a few of the Neutral Greys and I’ve been finding them really good to work with. I can’t remember if I have used them through my Micron though. I had found flow and tip dry better than a lot of the regular range.
I’ve been mixing 2:1 with 4050 and reducing 1:1 with 4011 at 35 - 40 psi.
I don’t have anything helpful to suggest other than adding what I’ve been doing.


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Hmmm... I might pick up some 4011 then. Maybe they just don't like 12/13. Thanks.
 
Hmmm... I might pick up some 4011 then. Maybe they just don't like 12/13. Thanks.
Could be worth a try. But I don’t know how different it is to 4013. Hopefully it’ll make then a little more useful to you Buddy.


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Could be worth a try. But I don’t know how different it is to 4013. Hopefully it’ll make then a little more useful to you Buddy.


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4011 didn't seem to do the trick either, but... 4050, which is what you are using is the UVLS clear. So it got me to thinking that maybe the issue is that there's something a bit off about the base in the ones I have. The white drops out of suspension after a few seconds of leaving the bottles beside me. Maybe try another clear additive....

Didn't have any on '50 hand, but I had the 4030. So I mixed it with 4030 first, waited 10 min, THEN mixed in my 4013 and waited. No seeding on the worst ones (6, 9 and 5). Still had to reduce it something like 10 to 1, but no more chunks or weird surges.

I'm thinking that maybe I got a bit of a bad run. Happened with some of my old Wicked paints years ago, which is why I stopped using them and moved to Illustration.

Also with '30 in the mix, the pigments don't drop out of suspension in my cup anymore.

So thanks for the idea. It's make them workable, even if it did reduce the open time a bit much for my liking. I can probably compensate for that with a drop of retarder.
 
4011 didn't seem to do the trick either, but... 4050, which is what you are using is the UVLS clear. So it got me to thinking that maybe the issue is that there's something a bit off about the base in the ones I have. The white drops out of suspension after a few seconds of leaving the bottles beside me. Maybe try another clear additive....

Didn't have any on '50 hand, but I had the 4030. So I mixed it with 4030 first, waited 10 min, THEN mixed in my 4013 and waited. No seeding on the worst ones (6, 9 and 5). Still had to reduce it something like 10 to 1, but no more chunks or weird surges.

I'm thinking that maybe I got a bit of a bad run. Happened with some of my old Wicked paints years ago, which is why I stopped using them and moved to Illustration.

Also with '30 in the mix, the pigments don't drop out of suspension in my cup anymore.

So thanks for the idea. It's make them workable, even if it did reduce the open time a bit much for my liking. I can probably compensate for that with a drop of retarder.
Glad I could help a little and you’re having better luck Buddy!


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Could be worth a try. But I don’t know how different it is to 4013. Hopefully it’ll make then a little more useful to you Buddy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
4011 is like a 4012 only not as harsh...and 4013 is like a 4012 only harsher for extreme temp ranges. There are two different 4013s ---then you have 4020 which is an automotive based reducer. My go to is 4011...I use that s**t for everything...lol

Water-based thinners for Createx paints.
- 4011 is the standard reducer for all Createx paints & clears.
- 4013 is a special, exempt isopropyl-alcohol thinner.
- 4020 is a special acetone thinner.
 
4011 is like a 4012 only not as harsh...and 4013 is like a 4012 only harsher for extreme temp ranges. There are two different 4013s ---then you have 4020 which is an automotive based reducer. My go to is 4011...I use that s**t for everything...lol

Water-based thinners for Createx paints.
- 4011 is the standard reducer for all Createx paints & clears.
- 4013 is a special, exempt isopropyl-alcohol thinner.
- 4020 is a special acetone thinner.
Thanks Mate, it was the 2 different versions of 4013 I was thinking about for some strange reason lol.


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@Kim McCann, I would bet some of the paint you now own was exposed to some very cold temperatures at some point in the journey from Createx to a distributor, and finally into your hands. Freezing temps aren't good for any type of paint. Water-based tends to experience problems more than others. I had the same issues you described with a bottle of Moss Green years ago. It's better to order paint during the Spring or Summer when temps don't get as cold. I know that's not always possible or practical, but I haven't experienced those issues again since I changed my ordering habits.
 
First set was garbage. Separated. Clogged airbrush. Second set. Replacement set. Same thing. If u can Fonda bottle that works well it is great stuff
 
My experience with CI paint in general is that they separate almost immediately. I don't have any complaints about how they spray, but they do require plenty of mixing before use.
 
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