Createx issues

[J000seph]

Hi guys, first off I want to say that I’m a fan of Createx Colors. It’s my paint brand of choice. However, with all things, it has pros and cons. I want to talk about the cons. Also, whether these cons have solutions.


A couple issues that come to mind are the 4030 turning solid, and pigment seeding. Feel free to expand on the list.
What issues have you had with Createx products?


As far as the 4030 turning solid, I think it’s for a couple reasons. The sealers and 4030 can’t be exposed to freezing temperatures. Supposedly the regular paints are a little safer in colder weather. And then there’s over exposure to air. I’ve experienced this from opening and closing (leaving open?) the cap on my 4030. I recently heard something about polyurethanes not having as long of a shelf life as other paints. Maybe someone can shed some light on that subject.


I just came across a video on YouTube talking about Createx paint seeding because of over reduction. Supposedly seeding is less likely if using the 4011 instead of the 4012 because the 4012 is more aggressive.

@10:47

 

[DaveG]

I know you have seen my other posts on the subject, but will add the info here for the benefit of the forum readers .

I went to make up a mix of Createx Illustration Black, and 4012. Both items were open, and have been used many times in the past without issue. On my first attempt to make up a reduced mix of the black, this time - the combination coagulated the moment the 4012 hit the paint in my cup. It looked like a solid blob of tar. I discarded this mix, and tried again in another container. This one was larger drops into a premeasured amount of Illustration black. Again, the paint broke almost immediately. The 4012 took on only a very small amount of tint, while the black paint turned into blobs tightly packed together within the mix. When dropped onto paper, the 4012 bled out into the fibers without pigment, and the paint stayed in one spot.

If was mentioned to try adding the 4012 either fast, or slow - I tried the fast, so decided to try the slow- I set up a premeasured beaker of Illustration black, and added 1ml of 4012 while stirring, by slowly dripping it into the mix. I set a timer and added 1ml (goal of 20ml) every 5 minutes to the mix while stirring. I made it all the way to 18ml with the mix looking pretty good, when I inadvertently squirted, rather than dripped, a small amount of 4012 into the beaker, and the mix curdled immediately.




As soon as I saw I was going to have an issue with my supplies, I ordered another bottle of Illustration Black and several small bottles of 4012. I opened one of the small bottles of 4012 and mixed it with paint from the OLD bottle of Illustration Black, and it mixed without issue.



I looked at the MSDS on the materials, and I can not see anything that should cause a polymerization of the paint - but, that appears to be what is happening. It isn't just pigment seeding out - regrinding should disperse the pigment again - but rather chains of pigment being tightly clumped together.

 

[Mr.Micron]

The 4030 hates super cold or temps over 100F but mine finally went solid and Craig Fraser made a comment on Steve Leahy's live feed that it could also be the bottle is not sealed air tight when in storage . So it avoid that happening again to me on a 32oz bottle I now only buy smaller bottle 4oz .
As far as seeding I have had both the 4011 and the 4012 seed on me and it is not from over reduction , 1 drop of paint and 1 drop of reducer and you see seeding it not over reduced . I have yet to have the 4020 seed the paint on me no matter how much reduction I do.
I have contacted Createx about the seeding and their response was most get it from using the 4020 and not from the 4011 or 4012 so they just said if it is working for me just keep using it.
But my paint is stored at 69F the only time it is exposed to temps lower then that is the few seconds it take me to walk from the house the the garage. so one the matter of the 4030 I think they still have some issues to work out.

 

[DaveG]

I looked at the MSDS, and 4020 is the exact same make up as 4012, with the addition of 10-15% Acetone...

 

[Mr.Micron]

I looked at the MSDS, and 4020 is the exact same make up as 4012, with the addition of 10-15% Acetone...

I know I have the msds sheets on all my paints and reducers I am just so use to having to have the MSDS sheets from my day job that I have them for everything I use at home too .
I do not think it has anything to do with the paints age either being I have some Wicked I rarely use that are from when WIcked first came out and testing them I still do not get seeding.

 

[J000seph]

If was mentioned to try adding the 4012 either fast, or slow - I tried the fast, so decided to try the slow..

My understanding so far is to add the reducer slowly and to use a slower drying reducer. That would make sense that the 4020 seeds more easily. I wonder if the 4012 exposed to air evaporates the alcohol and leaves behind whatever makes it dry faster than 4011?

I looked at the MSDS, and 4020 is the exact same make up as 4012, with the addition of 10-15% Acetone...

I didn’t know, but apparently 4020 is not intended to be used straight, but mixed with the 4012. I forget the ratio.

 

[Mr.Micron]

I didn’t know, but apparently 4020 is not intended to be used straight, but mixed with the 4012. I forget the ratio.

No it is design to use straight but you can mix it with 4011 or 4012. That is according to the techs at createx .

 

[J000seph]

No it is design to use straight but you can mix it with 4011 or 4012. That is according to the techs at createx .

It seems Createx product info evolves and keeps getting updated. 4030 is no longer referred to as intercoat, etc.
On Createx most recent videos on YouTube and on Coast Airbrush live feed on Facebook they’ve been saying to only mix 4020. I have the new 2019 data sheets, I will look if it’s updated.

 

[J000seph]

 

[Mr.Micron]

View attachment 58411

Interesting information being it was just last week I spoke with them again on the 4012 seeding when they said I can use the 4020 by it's self .
I think they are still trying to get all the bugs worked out of their new system. The first part of last week I bought a brand new bottle of the 4012 to give it another try , I also bought a few new colors , In one of those new colors I mixed it with the 4012 and got seeding with the first drop.
The same paint added with just the 4020 no seeding . I have never had an issue seeding using the 4020 but always on the 4011 or 4012.
Other however have had issues while using the 4020. It might be a regional thing due to climate and temps that is causing the issues too.
Being it is always humid where I live and the 4020 is for humid or cold conditions.
Oh and yes the 4030 is now called balancing clear, and the 4040 is a bleed checker. Craig Fraser said the 4040 even worked with HOK candy system on not allowing color bleed . I have yet to try the 4040 until I hear if it too will go solid in the container.

 

[SiRoxx]

View attachment 58411

That’s true, they do change and evolve and without checking the Data Sheets regularly you’d never know. When I first bought a Wicked Primary set a little over a year ago, 4020 was just a little more aggressive reducer and they were saying that 4012 had replaced 4011 which was being discontinued. Then around 3 months ago I started seeing that they were recommending 4011 for use with Candy2o if using a spray gun and possibly an airbrush. The stores that I use didn’t have any 4011 as they believed it had been discontinued too. They now have it in stock again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[J000seph]

Interesting information being it was just last week I spoke with them again on the 4012 seeding when they said I can use the 4020 by it's self .
I think they are still trying to get all the bugs worked out of their new system. The first part of last week I bought a brand new bottle of the 4012 to give it another try , I also bought a few new colors , In one of those new colors I mixed it with the 4012 and got seeding with the first drop.
The same paint added with just the 4020 no seeding . I have never had an issue seeding using the 4020 but always on the 4011 or 4012.
Other however have had issues while using the 4020. It might be a regional thing due to climate and temps that is causing the issues too.
Being it is always humid where I live and the 4020 is for humid or cold conditions.
Oh and yes the 4030 is now called balancing clear, and the 4040 is a bleed checker. Craig Fraser said the 4040 even worked with HOK candy system on not allowing color bleed . I have yet to try the 4040 until I hear if it too will go solid in the container.

Interesting. I wondered about regional factors also. It’s super high humidity where I live too. I haven’t tried the 4040 yet. I need to try using the candies more.

 

[J000seph]

That’s true, they do change and evolve and without checking the Data Sheets regularly you’d never know. When I first bought a Wicked Primary set a little over a year ago, 4020 was just a little more aggressive reducer and they were saying that 4012 had replaced 4011 which was being discontinued. Then around 3 months ago I started seeing that they were recommending 4011 for use with Candy2o if using a spray gun and possibly an airbrush. The stores that I use didn’t have any 4011 as they believed it had been discontinued too. They now have it in stock again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I remember them saying that about the 4011. I like 4011 and I had trouble finding it during that transition period. I’m sure Createx is getting feedback from the results people are getting over time.

 

[J000seph]

Want a slower reducer than 4011? 5618 Airbrush Cleaner is also a reducer.

@2:15

 

[J000seph]

Here’s a video comparing and describing 4011,4012, and 4020.

De-ionized water can also be used

@2:05

 

[SiRoxx]

Want a slower reducer than 4011? 5618 Airbrush Cleaner is also a reducer.

@2:15

Did not know that and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that video. I need to pay more attention clearly .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

I will say this at the risk of our Friends at Createx getting upset with me. I tried once again to do some painting with my Createx Illustration Paint Friday. I opened a brand new bottle of 4012. I started with straight CI and was able to spray at 30 psi for about 1 minute and the had to clean tip dry. I had very little control over the paint. I added 4012 and the paint began to spit almost immediately. There is something in all this that we are missing. It’s a shame that you spend all this money and we have nothing but discouraging issues that in some cases discourage a person from continuing to airbrush. And it’s not my brushes just ask Russ what my brushes conditions are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://fredaw61.wixsite.com/the-artist
https://www.youtube.com/user/fredaw61

 

[J000seph]

I will say this at the risk of our Friends at Createx getting upset with me. I tried once again to do some painting with my Createx Illustration Paint Friday. I opened a brand new bottle of 4012. I started with straight CI and was able to spray at 30 psi for about 1 minute and the had to clean tip dry. I had very little control over the paint. I added 4012 and the paint began to spit almost immediately. There is something in all this that we are missing. It’s a shame that you spend all this money and we have nothing but discouraging issues that in some cases discourage a person from continuing to airbrush. And it’s not my brushes just ask Russ what my brushes conditions are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://fredaw61.wixsite.com/the-artist
https://www.youtube.com/user/fredaw61

You're not the only one. It would be nice to know why.

 

[twood]

I always add my paint into the 4012 and have never had seeding. They say that 4012 can burn the pigments in some paints if poured over top....it is very hot...
I have always used 4020 on its own using the same mixing techniques and it does help in some of the extreme colds and humidex we get here.
That is cool about the cleaner also being a reducer...learn something new everyday

 

[J000seph]

I always add my paint into the 4012 and have never had seeding. They say that 4012 can burn the pigments in some paints if poured over top....it is very hot...
I have always used 4020 on its own using the same mixing techniques and it does help in some of the extreme colds and humidex we get here.
That is cool about the cleaner also being a reducer...learn something new everyday

What's cool about being able to use cleaner as a reducer is that if you run out of reducer it will work in a pinch!

I did hear about not letting 4012 sit on top. Forgot that one. Thanks for reminding us. They recommend mixing it right away.