Createx reducers

[Smiler65]

have read that a few use createx 4011 for reducing com art paint, but there seems to be others aswell, w100 w500 and 4011 and another flash that doesn't dry like the 4011.
Bit confused as some advertise them as the same thing, does it matter which I buy to try instead of water?

 

[Squishy]

I think the 4011 and W100 are the same and so are the 4012 and W500.

 

[Madbrush]

I was advised to use the 4011 to help me slow down my building up instead of using water which raises the risk of spidering more.

One of the others is supposed to reduce the tip dry increased by the 4011 but I'm not sure which, but I think @jagardn can give you more info there.

The 4011 also lm makes the paint dry quicker which is handy for small projects so you don't have wait long for layers to dry.

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

Have a look at the createx site, it has a nice description of all you mentioned:
http://www.createxcolors.com/products/wickedcolors/additives.html

In short you will encounter 2 types of things to add to your paint (and to keep it covinient and simple every brand has a different name for 'm ). Stuff to actualy make the paint thinner/flow better often refered to as reducer, and stuff that can be used to reduce the amount of pigment often called transparant base.

there are two reasons to reduce paint:
-Make it thinner so it sprays better
-Reducing the amount of pigment

The reason why we have 2 things that at first glance do the same thing is that paint has sommething called viscosity. If you add too much water / reducer the paint will nolonger stick together (lose viscosity) and fall appart meaning you spray water with blotches of paint in it.

So if you realy want to reduce the amount of pigment you can't keep adding water or reducer, this is where transparant base comes into play. This is paint without pigment. This means you can add this unlimmited as you are just adding paint without color, by adding it you don't affect the viscosity of the paint.

ps reducers most of the time have stuff added to reduce tipdry, affect drying times etc as otherwise you could just use water (and bottles saying "this does what water does but at 100x the price" probably won't sell too well

 

[Smiler65]

Thanks for the replies and link.

@Madbrush the 4011 says it helps dry quicker but the 4012 doesn't

@haasje dutchairbrush are you saying to reduce so far with reducer and trans base like 1:1:1

The main reasons I'm looking at this is.

The size of the tip in the Cm sb 0.18
Also to help lower my air pressure
And finally it with help me build up my layers slower as it would lighten the colour I'm using.

 

[Madbrush]

I just checked out Haasje's link and that w200 trans base sounds right up my street so I shall be hunting that stuff down locally, from what I understand, that along with the 4011 would give me more control, less chance of spidering, less loss of viscosity, smoother flow and a whole less pain in my head,

Me want, me want

 

[Madbrush]

Thanks for the replies and link.

@Madbrush the 4011 says it helps dry quicker but the 4012 doesn't

@haasje dutchairbrush are you saying to reduce so far with reducer and trans base like 1:1:1

The main reasons I'm looking at this is.

The size of the tip in the Cm sb 0.18
Also to help lower my air pressure
And finally it with help me build up my layers slower as it would lighten the colour I'm using.

You just said what I said and yes that is about the size of it,

 

[Madbrush]

I have some golden medium but that is wat my too sticky and takes 100 years to dry

 

[Smiler65]

I just checked out Haasje's link and that w200 trans base sounds right up my street so I shall be hunting that stuff down locally, from what I understand, that along with the 4011 would give me more control, less chance of spidering, less loss of viscosity, smoother flow and a whole less pain in my head,

Me want, me want

you must have been typing that as I was, hence why I was asking if to use both products

 

[Smiler65]

God I must learn to type quicker,see I said I was slow I'm 2 posts behind everyone

 

[Madbrush]

you must have been typing that as I was, hence why I was asking if to use both products

I was but yes it looks like an idiot proof plan which makes it something for me

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

@haasje dutchairbrush are you saying to reduce so far with reducer and trans base like 1:1:1

mmmm No . I can't tell you how to reduce as that realy depends on what you want to achieve at that moment. It will probably also depend on the brand of paint you use, thicker paint will probably not lose viscosity as soon as less thick paint.

If you reduce with too much water or reducer you should notice it as you don't get a nice atomisation but little speckles, when that's the case either add paint or transparant base (if the speckles aren't down to too low air pressure)

 

[Madbrush]

mmmm No . I can't tell you how to reduce as that realy depends on what you want to achieve at that moment. It will probably also depend on the brand of paint you use, thicker paint will probably not lose viscosity as soon as less thick paint.

If you reduce with too much water or reducer you should notice it as you don't get a nice atomisation but little speckles, when that's the case either add paint or transparant base (if the speckles aren't down to too low air pressure)

But the w200 would allow for slower build without the need for a pressure that so low it caused speckles, right? Which would make 1:1:1 a good starting point, right?,

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

But the w200 would allow for slower build without the need for a pressure that so low it caused speckles, right? Which would make 1:1:1 a good starting point, right?,

From what I read there this w200 has magical qualities . You'll have to start somewhere so 1:1:1 might work

 

[Madbrush]

From what I read there this w200 has magical qualities . You'll have to start somewhere so 1:1:1 might work

Lol, thank you, it sounds just what I need

 

[Smiler65]

Now that's just kicked that into touch, thought you had gave me full proof way of getting the result I was hoping for

I do struggle when I turn the air pressure down as I don't seem to get the paint though the brush then if I go in close I get a lot of spidering, to much air for distance from paper,I know some of this is down to finger control as well.
Does the medium I'm painting on make a big difference, ie absorbency ? I'm currently using Bristol paper and com-art paint.

I'm 2 posts behind again:depressed:

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

Now that's just kicked that into touch, thought you had gave me full proof way of getting the result I was hoping for

I do struggle when I turn the air pressure down as I don't seem to get the paint though the brush then if I go in close I get a lot of spidering, to much air for distance from paper,I know some of this is down to finger control as well.
Does the medium I'm painting on make a big difference, ie absorbency ? I'm currently using Bristol paper and com-art paint.

I'm 2 posts behind again:depressed:

I see in your signature you useamong others a cm-sb, that gun can paint at a ludricous low pressure if the reduction is right it is (and you indicate that already) important not to give too much paint when close up as no matter how low the presure if you send too much paint you'll get spiders. The type of paint and surface you are working on will without doubt have influence on spidering etc (can't comment on comart and bristol though as I never used either of them)

 

[Smiler65]

I only use the cm-sb now and this is the brush I'm trying to get fully to grips with.i know I've got to practice, practice and learn hence why I'm trying to find a rough base figure to start from as I think straight paint or with water isn't the best place for me to start.

 

[Madbrush]

Now that's just kicked that into touch, thought you had gave me full proof way of getting the result I was hoping for

I do struggle when I turn the air pressure down as I don't seem to get the paint though the brush then if I go in close I get a lot of spidering, to much air for distance from paper,I know some of this is down to finger control as well.
Does the medium I'm painting on make a big difference, ie absorbency ? I'm currently using Bristol paper and com-art paint.

I'm 2 posts behind again:depressed:

Lol, you just need to find the right combo for your substrate, that is always a bit hit and miss due many variables but you do find the sweet spot, then if work later on different substrates you will usually have adapt your mixes to suit.

I usually work at very low pressure and ofet get speckles Haasje mentions but I feel convinced that with the trans base in the mix I can up the pressure a little so that I lose the speckles without any loss in results I get and am happy with.

It sounds I will actually have better control with a lot the negatives cancelled out.

 

[Madbrush]

I see in your signature you useamong others a cm-sb, that gun can paint at a ludricous low pressure if the reduction is right it is (and you indicate that already) important not to give too much paint when close up as no matter how low the presure if you send too much paint you'll get spiders. The type of paint and surface you are working on will without doubt have influence on spidering etc (can't comment on comart and bristol though as I never used either of them)

Com-art supposidly very close to etac and the Bristol Board is much the same as schoelershammer