Darker red?

L

littlerick

Guest
I have done a pair of cherries and need to darken it a little more for shadows on underside. being colour blind and red being one of the main culprits.... I have no idea what to add to darken it... Black will make it just look dirty... I just need a subtle change of colour. Any suggestions on what to use please!
 
A very small amount of green, the general rule for shadows is to add a tiny amount of the colour opposite on the colour spectrum, if you don't have a colour wheel, it's a good investment, you can always see at a glance what your shadow additive should be.
 
Violet springs to mind. Possibly just reduce and weaken your red, make it candy like, and build the color slow just until you get your desired shade.
 
Transparant blue will shift it to a bit darker hue (madbrush gave the correct technical explenation, as cherries tend to go towards purple I'd use blue in this case)
 
I thought of that Haasje, was just worried about turning purple too easy, then I did suggest violet as a tint.
 
I dont rely like adding to much complimentary color for shadows, its easy to overdo and can look weird but it does give stronger contrast but I assume its a local color shadow need IE on the cherry itself, if you go start adding green to it be careful LOL, I'd tend to use something in the same color gamut, ie a cherry red LOL soz couldnt help myself, but a few drops of trans warm blue mixed with a warm trans red, will make a nice deeper and richer purplish red, most shadows have blue in them so no harm there if you get some blue hint and if you use a trans it will just deepen what you have already painted there and with one color you can take em to various natural looking shades of that one trans pending on how intense you go. Best of luck with it..
 
Thanks.. It is only a very small bit of the painting. Voilet or blue sounds good... get the wife to check it before i paint lol.
 
I thought of that Haasje, was just worried about turning purple too easy, then I did suggest violet as a tint.

I'd agree with Wayne. When darkening a color if you tint it with the darkest color next to it on the color wheel, it will get darker without losing much chroma. You can easily kill chroma with the colors compliment, but getting the chroma back is difficult at best, if not impossible.
 
Forty odd years working with nothing other than colour has taught me nothing, that's a long time to be looking out the window instead of listening and learning :(
 
I did a little test to see what happens using each of these ideas, the only one I didn't was the burnt umber, but I know from my own use of that that it works fine especially if it's done first and then over with the red.

You can see in the photo here the little swatch under each ball, the green (which I suggested) got to where it is almost instantly so a little less of it would have produced a better result, the trans blue works very well but requires a lot to get to where it is now and as can be seen begins to push towards purple, the darker red swatch works fine too but when it reaches full opacity remains dark red so different shades of red might be required for a pleasing end result, the violet (I think) was a complete disaster, a hell of a lot was needed to get to where it is as you can see from the smudging so i would avoid this approach.

Note: the colours I used where sprayed straight onto the solid ball and not added to the colour, used as an additive in small amounts you would more control over the outcome although I'm sure that both the blue and violet would cause an unwanted colour change.

Test.jpg

My conclusion here, mainly because I generally mix my colours on work it'self, I would stick with green, I would normally use a transparent lime green to allow me to build and not the brighter green you see here, this was just for a quick test, but if less subtlety is required the darker shade/shades of red is certainly a viable option, I'm not saying that the blue and violet would not work but unless i had the time to test every available shade of either I couldn't say for sure but they certainly would not be my first choices.

In situation where I am not using umber which is very rare, I simply look at my colour wheel at the opposite colour and choose the lightest of the shades under it and this becomes my shadow colour, but that's just me, the final choice depends on what the individual requires.

The four bottom balls have little significance here, I just wanted to see what effect over spray might have on the same colour at half opacity:)
 
I am colourblind, but the green does look the better one to me.... I'll do the same as MB and try em all first thanks guys!
 
I am colourblind, but the green does look the better one to me.... I'll do the same as MB and try em all first thanks guys!

I think that that is a clever decision, only you yourself will know which approach you find best suits your needs.
 
I did a little test to see what happens using each of these ideas

As that looked completely different from what I'd expected I just had to do a little test myself and although with me green didn't work I still proved myself wrong a with my test red violet gave the best result (for a cherry that is) instead of blue

I used E'tac by the way as I expect which brand you use will also have some influence.

I had to mix my own green as i didn't have that in transparant but unlike in madbrush's example it turned out giving a distinct green hue
Blue shade (darker blue than in madbrush's example) went dark realy quickly and did add a tad of a blue hue.
Red violet worked best to my surprise gave it that nice deep red cherry shade
 
As that looked completely different from what I'd expected I just had to do a little test myself and although with me green didn't work I still proved myself wrong a with my test red violet gave the best result (for a cherry that is) instead of blue

I used E'tac by the way as I expect which brand you use will also have some influence.

I had to mix my own green as i didn't have that in transparant but unlike in madbrush's example it turned out giving a distinct green hue
Blue shade (darker blue than in madbrush's example) went dark realy quickly and did add a tad of a blue hue.
Red violet worked best to my surprise gave it that nice deep red cherry shade

I think the brand would probably indeed have some influence, :I used all com art, I also mixed the green myself, I normally only ever have the three primaries at home and always mix my own colours, then modify if needed with white or black.

Did you try lime green?, I used a straight green but used very little.
 
I am colourblind, but the green does look the better one to me

LOL, cause thats the one he took an extra few minutes to do so it looked nicer (Even if it was a greyscale) ;) LOL

But yer trying a few techniques out is always the best thing to do, experiment as with you challenged color perception you may come up with a reult that teaches everyone else a new way, like who said hot pink cherries dont exist somewhere in the universe LOL. A lot of it comes down though to the style you paint in also. If you paint free hand the complimentary way of darkening a shadow can bee fraught with danger due to overspray, (especially if you plan to leave a lot of canvas white, overspray of the same gamut can always be easily covered), if on the otherhand you use frisket or stencils a lot to create a piece the complimentary method works well and is a lot more pleasing to the eye than using black tints and the aim of more traditional art, you can though also deepen the picture on canvas or color in the cup also as you go, for example doing say a light pass of a transparent cherry red gets you your highlight with a little latter erasing, keep building that up layer on layer of the same sprayed intensity (IE Just get closer each pass) and aim more towards your darker edge, by the time you get to the edge of the cherry its deeper in color purely due to the amount of layers only using the one original color This also creates the shaded look of the cherry but then any shadows cast on it you also paint at this 100 % intensity and it will stand out from the lighter intense cherry color behind, so in essence with this method a believable cherry will be born. Shapes are very important but the eye is really good at taking a larger shape and separating it in to individual areas of shadow and smaller shapes that arn't really there, larger masses also give the eye of the viewer somewhere to rest in a busy painting, main point is that don't overwork or worry to much on shadows, a simple suggestion of light source and basic shadow will allow the viewer to fill in the gaps..

Another method mentioned is just add a few drops of the green (If you like the more natural looking shadow) into your red or black if your going for a nice contrasting or dark image as you spray again multiple light passes. Good thing though about the transparent black method is that another final pass of the trans red over the top and the black will take on a really dark red hue rather than look pure black but avoid opaque blacks for this method, has to be reduced transparents for it to work well and blend rather than obscure the earlier colors. Another good method instead of a fully trans system is an opaque system. Base the cherry in a rich red-re-apply your highlight if needed, then use pure transparents for the layers on top and in that area you could use dozens of different color combo's for various light applications (IE Reflected light of a sunset would see the needs of oranges into your cherrys ;) LOL or of course impressing distance with blue shades.

But color theory though important is never as important as what effect/atmosphere your trying to create, but it lends to helping us to allow that effect to come to life or death (if that's the effect your after) and how you manipulate that color theory to help achieve that result-So in essence if the cherrys are in hell LOL I'd paint them with some black or heavy rich purplish red as I want to convey darkness and doomed cherrys, if in a summers field I'd use say blues, violets and greens as the sun played on them at various intensity's but after the big long story, the moral is try it all, know as many options as possible as each has their use..But if its all just grey to you- take all the stickers off your paint bottles, mix them all up and just paint what you see in greyscale as then we may see some damn fine original (And colorful) cherrys :) Good luck with em :)
 
I think the brand would probably indeed have some influence, :I used all com art, I also mixed the green myself, I normally only ever have the three primaries at home and always mix my own colours, then modify if needed with white or black.

Did you try lime green?, I used a straight green but used very little.

Green I used came pretty close to the one you used but it was a tad warmer.
 
I did a little test to see what happens using each of these ideas, the only one I didn't was the burnt umber, but I know from my own use of that that it works fine especially if it's done first and then over with the red.

You can see in the photo here the little swatch under each ball, the green (which I suggested) got to where it is almost instantly so a little less of it would have produced a better result, the trans blue works very well but requires a lot to get to where it is now and as can be seen begins to push towards purple, the darker red swatch works fine too but when it reaches full opacity remains dark red so different shades of red might be required for a pleasing end result, the violet (I think) was a complete disaster, a hell of a lot was needed to get to where it is as you can see from the smudging so i would avoid this approach.

Note: the colours I used where sprayed straight onto the solid ball and not added to the colour, used as an additive in small amounts you would more control over the outcome although I'm sure that both the blue and violet would cause an unwanted colour change.

View attachment 34219

My conclusion here, mainly because I generally mix my colours on work it'self, I would stick with green, I would normally use a transparent lime green to allow me to build and not the brighter green you see here, this was just for a quick test, but if less subtlety is required the darker shade/shades of red is certainly a viable option, I'm not saying that the blue and violet would not work but unless i had the time to test every available shade of either I couldn't say for sure but they certainly would not be my first choices.

In situation where I am not using umber which is very rare, I simply look at my colour wheel at the opposite colour and choose the lightest of the shades under it and this becomes my shadow colour, but that's just me, the final choice depends on what the individual requires.

The four bottom balls have little significance here, I just wanted to see what effect over spray might have on the same colour at half opacity:)

Can I just say what an excellent response this is? @Madbrush :D
you will definitely find differences between different paint brands - each system acts differently to the next.

If you have a reference i would say match the reference, if you don't I would have said to put a small amount of black into the red that you have used on the cherry. As Madbrush has clearly shown, there is more than one way to skin a cat!
 
Excellent stuff Madbrush.

You must remember that different hues will also work different. There is not just one green or red or...... There are cold and warm versions of each colour. So you need to use the correct one. A warm red needs a warm green.
 
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