first layer on flames?


Needle-chuck Ninja
Hi all I know this may sound really odd.... however I been dink'n around with flames because fire painting are quite wonderful when done right, I can get the shapes building in the middle layers however I feel like I am getting way to dark and over saturated with the first red layer and no real good shapes in it...

What im looking for is some kind of guidance on how to start a real solid 1st flame layer to build on.. ?? Im not trying to do an object just the actual flames of the true fire style vs the classic hot rod style

lol now that i look at it my middle layer is way over saturated as well LOL.... got some fun shapes in it though
@Strictly Attitude yeah im aware of that but the whole concept just kind of get lost when i start doing it for some reason... i always feel like im taking it easy and when im done its SOOOO heavy its unreal.. ill post a quick photo from the phone so you can see what im talking about.. Im not sure where to pull the plug..
Here is the wip. Not sure why i get so dense


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too much keep it simple get some reference keep it close. There are so many ways to stylize flames or fire. I like to lay down the first layer and then build up on it. I always used uros and candies though but the theory is all the same I did some flames in black in white on youtube that would be how I would put down my first layer. each layer is to sharpen the one under it add depth
Watch "Grex Genesis.XS Airbrush review Airbrushing a skull" on YouTube
Grex Genesis.XS Airbrush review Airbrushing a skull:
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The trick to a flame with good depth is dont layer on the colors full saturation. Let the black background show through. As the red paint should just tint the black. Not cover it. All because you will be working several layers over the area to build depth.
Here is a few images of steps on how i do flames. This was done with house of kolor paint. But same is used w waterbased paints.notice how i didnt completely cover the black basecoat unless i knew it was gonna be a very hot spot.


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SAM_1284 (600x800).jpg There are many different styles and techniques, but my method is this :- (No WIP I'm afraid :) ) The first red coat is just to give a base, and to decide where the flames are going. No detail at all, but just to give an idea of what flow and general shape I want, and is not a solid block, though has a good few layers to build up a nice depth of colour.. Then the orange layer gets the general flame shapes, but is still very loose and not sharp. Not until the yellow layer does the detail go in, then this is accentuated where needed with some hot spots. No stencils were used as I find it a bit restricting, and I was getting a more natural look without them. There's no clearcoat in this pic, but this was done with Wicked and popped nicely after the clear went on. Keep your middle layer within the base colour area, , and your top layer within the middle colour area, so that the colours stay bright, and you don't end up losing your overall shape.

It took me a lot of experimenting to get a style I was happy with, so don't get downhearted, and don't worry if the way someone else does it, doesn't work out exactly the same for you. Just keep playing with it, and it will come together all of a sudden, and then maybe someone will be trying your technique :)
Think of the red layer as the aura around each flame.
You still want to see it, but only as a "ghost" of the flame, not as the defining outline.
The yellow layer should appear as if it's the edge of the flame itself.
This would be the area where the flame apppears to be "cooling off", or at least not as hot as the next layer.
Orange is where the flame is heating up, inside the yellow.
White is for the intensly hot areas, inside the flame.
Hope this helps.
It seems a lot of people use the 1st red layer as a guide for the folowing phases. When I do flames I like to do the first red layer in a slightly different direction than that of what the actual flames are going to be. I use it purely as a background to create some illusion of depth and ignore it completely in all layers after that that are actualy going to be the flames.
Well are you using water based paints or urethanes?? If your using water based you should use pink first spraying lightly and only more intense in the areas that you need red, then spray a highly reduced transparent red over the pink just barley off the pink into the black. That will give toy 5he glow look and will help with oversaturation. Just remember that the orange and yellow will bring out your red. If your red is looking a bit maroon or dark crimson that should be fine. I hardly ever have a bright solid red in my flames. You have to have shades of the red (like the other colors) to give contrast and help with depth and that is what the pink does for you with wat water based paints.
hope that helps a little bit. But I do agree with everyone else, that there shouldn't be much to the red other other than it giving you a sense of where you'll be putting the flames.
I usually dont even use red except to deepen my oranges in spots. I use etac. I run a red orange first for my basecoat. The new fire kit they have in the ag series (high octane yellow, dark rum, dragons blood, and crystal caramel) behave very similar to candies. They can make the fire more red, yellow, gold, or whatever little tweaks you need. This is what my set up allow me to do.

The pink first sounds odd. Seamonkey, could you post a pic of something you did this step on? Its got my curiosity going now. Lol. In all my work i always sketch out with a light pastel color till i get my set up just right. Then i darken. But always went right in with my red orange. Ive learned that the least amount you have to layer your fire the cleaner it stays. So the more transparent glazes you put, the more muddy it gets.
Here ya go spazticchild ... I have more but will have to wait till I get home to find them. The video is from a few years ago.
Water based fire with Kandy effect:
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Your welcome. Watch gearboxxxrocks video on the water based flames. It is awesome and it taught me a lot about how the colors work together......and he is way better than me, lol!
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It is blurry has hell but the info he gives is outstanding, if you can watch the whole thing without losing your attention was hard for me :)
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