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Flakes, pearls and other expensive dust!!! or ... ???

Discussion in 'Tips & Tricks!' started by Vladimir, Jul 28, 2019.


  1. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Part of the custom paint jobs is using different pigments that give very attractive effects to the object of custom work. These pigments are flakes, pearls, chameleons, fluorescent and other pigments. All of them have their own way of application, that require different techniques and tools.


    In other threads effect paints sometimes are mentioned, but it would be great to have special thread for discussion of the topics related with the pigments used for custom jobs.


    Recently we’ve discussed the flakes and tool for their application and we’ve seen there’s an interest in this topic, so time for the discussion has come, that’s why this thread has been launched.


    Wet or dry application, quantity of the pigments, viscosity of the mix, temperatures, distances to the surface etc, all mentioned features are important to know for using custom made paints.


    Some of you already have the experience in using mentioned (and not mentioned) effects pigments, so it would great if you’d share your experience.


    I already have many types of the pigments, but only tried some peals and chameleon. Used them in liquid state (like random paint), the paint was ready to use, I didn't prepare it.
    So I also interested in growing of the knowledge of custom paint preparation and use.


    I hope this thread is going to be interesting and informative.


    To start with something, I’ve taken some shots of part of the pigments I have.


    Here are the flakes. The photos don’t make any justice on how these things shine under the Sun.

    P1010136.JPG




    The difference between flakes and holographic flakes.
    Flakes just shine white sparkles and holographic flakes shine like all colours of the rainbow sparkles.

    P1010133.JPG P1010134.JPG P1010135.JPG P1010140.JPG P1010141.JPG P1010142.JPG


    These are some pearls.
    Photos don't show what they are under the sun, but something is better than nothing.

    P1010148.JPG P1010149.JPG P1010150.JPG



    So, show what you’ve got, your jobs done, tools for application, etc. Any info is much appreciated!


    I’ll think over the tools for application and post them here also.
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  2. SkooterTrash

    SkooterTrash Needle-chuck Ninja

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    What do you mix those with? Just the paint? I'd love to use stuff like this on the cars I make.
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  3. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

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    I like the idea of this thread very much. Either tomorrow or the day after I will upload some photos of the flake and pearl that I have. At the moment there ain’t much in my paint box, but I have a couple different silver flakes. I want to get some holographic next. I also have some white pearl pigment that needs to be mixed into paint. I want have a play with adding it to some Intercoat Clear and see how it acts. I also have some Autoair Hotrod Sparkle White that I haven’t tried yet. Apparently, the “White” colour is actually pretty clear and reflects whatever colour it’s sprayed over. When I have the chance to try it, I’ll add some photos to this thread.


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  4. SkooterTrash

    SkooterTrash Needle-chuck Ninja

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    I have some of the Auto Air Metallic White fine on the way. Should be here tomorrow. I'll break out my practice piece...
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  5. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I haven't mixed them yet. I've used just ready to use paint mixes, they have higher price than preparing your own paint. Another reason to make ones own paint is to have just what you need for certain application.

    The pigments are mixed with the transparent base or clear and sprayed over some underlaying paint. It's the way to get the most from effects paint. If to mix just in the paint (pigment and carrier mix), you will loose effect very much, as pigments of the paint will minimize the effect.

    For the models, I think, you need 0,1 - 0,2 mm size flakes, as bigger sizes are not for that small surface. Pearls are much finer, so any would do for you. What's shown on my photos are mostly 0,2 mm size flakes.
    BTW, products from PWP are the cheapest in the US, at least I haven't found lower price.

    Totally agree with you , Simon! Not much info on the forum concerning this topic, though many people use these products for their works.

    I think, using intercoat clear as the carrier is a bit expensive, if it's from automotive urethane lines, as it has higher price than just transparent base. Real intercoat clear has sealing properties, which we don't need when using as a carrier for the pigments. For sealing the candies intercoat clear is a must.
    I have no idea what they call "intercoat clear" in waterbased AB paints lines, though.

    Photos are the most welcomed!

    Simon, you've forgotten about the flake buster;)



    You're going to be among the first among showing the results!:)
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  6. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

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    Oh yes lol. I will be sure to put some good photos of the Flake buster too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  7. SkooterTrash

    SkooterTrash Needle-chuck Ninja

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    I might actually spray that green VW with it...
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  8. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Good luck!
    What are you going to use on that? Metallic White you're waiting for, or anything else?
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  9. SkooterTrash

    SkooterTrash Needle-chuck Ninja

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    2019-07-27_01-21-20.jpg
    I ended up with a couple of small glue spots while putting the windows on.

    My plan is a light wetsand of the spots, and then hit it with the white micro flake, then hit again with clearcoat.
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  10. jord001

    jord001 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    I'm off today as work is a bit scarce for the next week or so, so I will take some pics of the powders I have and post them up as well as the guns I have for application.

    Lee
  11. SkooterTrash

    SkooterTrash Needle-chuck Ninja

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    2019-07-30_02-44-03.jpg
    This is the Createx Metallic White Micro flake, over a purple pearl.

    2019-07-30_02-44-15.jpg
    Micro White mixed with Wicked Lime Pearl.

    I had one of the white mixed with Wicked aluminum over the Autoborne Silver, looked really good, until my finger hit it while grabbing something.

    I like the Micro White, it mixes very well for my needs.
    2019-07-30_02-44-27.jpg
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  12. SkooterTrash

    SkooterTrash Needle-chuck Ninja

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    2019-07-30_02-58-19.jpg 2019-07-30_02-55-24.jpg Dang sorry I didn't realize the green one was so out of focus.

    edit: Here is a couple with the flash.
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  13. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Are you sure it's flake over pearl, not pearl over flake?

    Pigment size looks OK for this size of surface.

    So, you use ready to go paint mixes?
    Nice results!
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  14. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    If you're going to choose smth among black flakes. There are three types: black, black holographic, black holographic mix.
    I was lucky to take normal shoots so one wanting to choose among them could judge on their appearance.

    Black is sparkling white colour, holographic - all colours of the rainbow. There's a difference between holographic and holographic mix. Mix is more colourful and without the light looks like very dark grey compared to black holographic, which looks realy black. Mix does not look true black.

    P1010138.JPG P1010139.JPG
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  15. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    To start talking about the application tools for the flakes.
    There are two ways of doing that. Wet and dry. For wet application spray gun are used, for dry - so called "flake busters".

    I've never used any of application ways to the date, so more question than answers I've got.

    The questions for wet application (just a little of them):

    the amount of dry flakes in the carrier (binder or clear)
    ratios of the thinner and the binder/clear
    preferable distances to the surface, speed of application, air pressures
    etc.

    The same questions are also for dry application, surely list is shortened due to not using the mix of flakes and carrier. But other questions arise.
    Let's say, how economical flake buster is if you're going to cover not the helmet , but car? How many of the flakes with fly away from the surface? Maybe it's possible to gather the flakes that aren't drowned in the binder/clear by laying clean big sheets of protective paper under the painted area?
    What's preferred for wet layer on the surface for sticking the flakes, binder or clear? How wet it should be, thickness of it?

    What pros and contras of these two ways of application?
    What's your experience?

    I started gathering tools long time ago for wet application, but never tried any yet.
    Here are some at my disposal.

    1.JPG

    One on the left is Iwata W-101 with the agitator. It's a mid size gun with 1,3mm setup. Designed specially for application of the paint mixes where pigments settle fast in the paint cup. Using the thing allows to apply evenly distributed material.
    Has anyone used it? I tried to adjust pressure and agitator speed rotation, but it seems it's not that simple and fast from the start:) What are the trick to adjust the thing? I understand it's not quantum physics:)

    One thing disturbing me about the gun is the nozzle size.What max size of the flakes would go through it without issues?
    The gun is also a bit modified. You can see custom made knob for needle adjustment (amount of the material applied), I find it more convenient to use than the original one installed.
    Thinking of not that big nozzle I bought another gun with 1,8mm setup. The gun is being improved for the time, but not finished yet. Now it's side feed full size gun made from other type gun. Do you know many full size side feed guns?;)
    The nozzle size of it is much larger than Iwata's as you can see, so bigger size flakes would go through it. Again, what's the max possible size to go through this size?

    2.JPG



    Some photos for understanding what the agitator is.


    3.JPG 4.JPG


    Another thing is flake buster.
    There are two ways of getting them, one is to buy one (full size or mini), another is DIY.
    Those ready to use some of you have and could show and tell about your experience with them.
    DIY ones should be discussed. Maybe, we'll come up together with new type of flake buster. I've got in my mind two types of them now. One is simple way, another one is not that simple, but the results may be better.

    I think, it's better to start with the simple one.
    I remember many times ago on one of the AB forums there was a thread from a guy from Ukraine, where he showed what he did. There were many photos in that thread with thorough explanation of what to do. But that forum failed and the information is lost. Main thing I remember, that the nozzle hole size was changed. The one nozzle that's inside or of the outer one. I'll try to find and contact with that guy, but now will try to explain what he did. Anyway, if I will not find him, it's always possible and interesting to experiment with parts;)

    The buster was based on gravitex application gun. It looks like this.

    s-l1600.jpg

    You don't need to buy branded one, as any other would do. There are a few designs, like this shown and some a bit different, but still working the same providing the same function.
    As you can see, not many thing are to do with it to make it work like the flake buster. You need to unscrew long tube down the body and to attach there your jar with the flakes. Not much work, yeah?:)
    What do you think?

    Trying to search where to buy this gun, found another similarly working thing - not expensive sand blasters.
    Looks like this:

    1.jpg



    2.jpg

    There are two types of them. One - with the bottom bowl, another - without. Things are also cheap as the gravitex gun.
    The only thing I don't know is what size of the nozzles would be preferable. It's just a matter of trials and errors to get proper design.
    These are the things I'm going to work on. Maybe some of you made the buster of your own based on mentioned guns? What do think?

    Another way of DIY of the buster is in my mind. Will think over it and post it later.
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  16. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

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    That looks like beautiful flake.


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  17. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

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    There’s is definitely a lot to be thinking about with this subject. It’ll be good to see some different options and how they work out.
    I have tried both wet and dry methods, but only really once for each.
    The first was the wet application which I found surprisingly easy. I mixed the binder and reducer as per manufacturers info which was 2:1, then began adding the flake a little at a time. For this application I wanted to enhance the existing flake level in a metallic base coat, so only added a small amount of .8 Flake. It went through my 1mm Mini Gun without any problem, and put enough flake down that I was happy, without saturating the surface with flake.
    The dry method seems a little more complicated to get a small amount of flake down. It was a fairly hot day, so the binder was flashing off very quickly making it tough to get the flake on in a slow, controlled way. Once I decided to really blast it on, there were no problems. I started with the air pressure very low and slowly raised it until I could see flake coming from the nozzle. This method obviously took WAY more intercoats to bury. The wet method pretty much buried with one. The dry was about 5. I will up load pictures of both results.


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  18. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I'd advise to by all types for choosing smth for certain work. Plain black are just black flakes, but those holographic are totally different in appearance, for certain work one might be more suitable, than another.

    This picture maybe would say a bit more about how they look, but it's not what they are in reality under the sun.


    P1010137.JPG



    Cool, Simon!:thumbsup:

    Never thought it could happen. 0.8 through 1.0! It's good to know. Now I can be sure that 1.3 will work well for many sizes, at least from 0.1 to 0.6 and, as your experience shows, even 0.8:)

    Cool observation!:thumbsup:


    That's why I thought to use slow thinner for the reason binder wouldn't dry too fast and we'd have more window to work with wet layer.


    That's what I thought about. In the video below another option is shown for better control.


    These words "more intercoats" I do not like:( That means thick paint layer, it's no good.
    Sweet spot should be found, as not only the effect we need, but also right paint layer thickness.


    Smart idea came to search on youtube:D
    At one shot found the same u-pol gun I mentioned above used as flake buster. Nothing was done with the gun. It works without any improvements! (But I will not be me, if I wouldn't do anything with the toollol). The guy shows that it works.
    Keep your shoes protected! It shows that regulators must be installed.



    Below there are two busters, that provide smarter control. Valve is added to the flake flow either. I like the idea much! That's what must be installed in the buster.
    I think these are basic designs that should be considered.
    One thing bothers me, there's no tube going to the bottom! I think, built with the tube would work better... who knows. As I understand both things are siphon type, but how siphon would normally work without the tube?o_O



    This one has an interesting nozzle.

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  19. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

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    The slow thinners is absolutely what I will use next time. I may also go with a 2k clear to bury the flake as I think the extra thickness would reduce the number of coats needed to fully bury the flake.


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  20. SkooterTrash

    SkooterTrash Needle-chuck Ninja

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    What size flake would you guys recommend for an airbrush? Is the .004 what they call "micro" flake, or is that just a generic term?
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