Flow Problems

A

AreSea

Guest
H&S Infinity
.15mm Needle
~25 psi, Iwata Studio Series, with iwata regulator
Purified water

Basically I'm having the same problem as described in this thread.
http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/need-to-work-trigger-back-and-forth.10317/#post-140779
Only it's happening with just straight water. I imagine it's not a thinning problem.

When I try and shoot water out it comes ok at first, but then after a few seconds the flow dies, then completely stops. It kicks back up again if I wiggle the trigger. The airflow remains constant, it's just the water that's giving me trouble. I've cleaned the brush thoroughly. The nozzle is brand new even.

This brush has been giving me this problem since day 1. I ordered a new needle/nozzle. This set at .2mm. I don't get any water flow through this setup unless I crank the PSI up to 50.

Upon dis-assembly I discovered there is some water as far back as my trigger/valve. Hopefully this is just leftover from when I was cleaning it while dis-assembled. I've taken the airbrush apart, removed all the 0- rings and flushed acetone through the body of it, then using a soft copper/brass wire scraped the inside and did remove a little gunk. I scraped out the area where the needle is visible by looking into the paint cup with the nozzle cleaning tool. In carelessness, I sheared a small sliver of metal off where the need becomes visible (not sure what you'd call this, if looking in where the paint cup attached it's the small hole towards the back of the brush) At first I feared I may have damaged the airbrush while doing this, but then I realized that it was already not working.

I'm about to send the brush in to get it looked at unless anyone has any better ideas.
 
I had exactly the same problem with an evolution silver line, 7 months of stripping, cleaning and tuning didn't help, my solution was to lob it and buy an iwata which I did and I've never looked back.

I'm not saying it can't be fixed, but it's not a problem you can fix yourself, so sending it back is your best option, certainly if it's a new brush.
 
I think if you contact H&S they will be only too pleased to help you out. I have contacted them a couple of times, and they do answer very quickly and on the face seem like a very good company. Also each airbrush has a number so they know who tested and boxed it up.
 
Send it back, they will likely refurb or replace, or even let you know in the unlikely event it's something you're doing wrong (though it doesn't seem so to me). There's nothing more frustrating than a gun that won't play, and by sending it back at least you'll know when it comes back you'll be starting with a clean slate.
 
I had a similar problem with my Evo AL plus. It ended up being a bad nozzle.
I was using an Iwata Power Jet.
Anything under around 40psi would cause what you are describing. See the video below. (The video has my Infinity, the nozzle didn't work in either airbrush.)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

First I would try reseating the o ring on the air cap to make sure there is a good seal there. Most spray issues with H&S brushes for me has been that gasket.

Below was my last ditch effort to fix my bad nozzle which worked well for me. This could damage or destroy the nozzle.

I was able to fix the bad nozzle by using the nozzle cleaning tool to bore out the inside of the nozzle a bit. I figured the nozzle was already trash, so why the hell not try it.

Note that I used the H&S Nozzle Cleaning tool, it is the exact taper of the inside of the nozzle. Any other nozzle tool will crack or flare the nozzle, making it useless.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1420222457.593233.jpg
 
The root cause of my issue was that the needle was not exposed enough out the end of the nozzle. There was not enough surface area of the needle exposed to pull paint out of the airbrush.
Since you have two nozzles, do you also have two needles? If you put the other needle in, does it work better? If so, does one needle stuck out the end more than the other?
 
The root cause of my issue was that the needle was not exposed enough out the end of the nozzle. There was not enough surface area of the needle exposed to pull paint out of the airbrush.
Since you have two nozzles, do you also have two needles? If you put the other needle in, does it work better? If so, does one needle stuck out the end more than the other?

So how would paint exit the airbrush at full pull? It's the nozzle that creates the pull, the needle shouldn't have anything to do with it.
 
So how would paint exit the airbrush at full pull? It's the nozzle that creates the pull, the needle shouldn't have anything to do with it.

Paint flows down the needle thanks to gravity towards the needle tip, the paint sitting on the protruding part of the needle is mixed with the air coming from the space between the nozzle and nozzle cap, this action pulls further amounts of paint forward allowing the spray effect to continue uninterrupted, if the small part of the needle that normally protrudes wasn't there the paint would be pushed back into the gun which is what's happening in this case, so the needle and its precise position is crucial to the whole process, if not there would be a valve instead and that's what makes spray cans so unpredictable and hard to control.
 
Paint flows down the needle thanks to gravity towards the needle tip, the paint sitting on the protruding part of the needle is mixed with the air coming from the space between the nozzle and nozzle cap, this action pulls further amounts of paint forward allowing the spray effect to continue uninterrupted, if the small part of the needle that normally protrudes wasn't there the paint would be pushed back into the gun which is what's happening in this case, so the needle and its precise position is crucial to the whole process, if not there would be a valve instead and that's what makes spray cans so unpredictable and hard to control.

I understand fully how they work. The actual suction has little to do with the needle. It's about nozzle placement and shape. I don't even need a needle in my airbrush to get it to spray.

The needle is flow control and discharge shape of the liquid.
 
So how would paint exit the airbrush at full pull? It's the nozzle that creates the pull, the needle shouldn't have anything to do with it.

By me running the nozzle tool inside the nozzle, two things happen. The bore itself increased by some minute amount and the needle sticks out farther.
Regardless of what it is, the end result is that my failed nozzle from the video is now working, well actually, that one and another one.
 
I understand fully how they work. The actual suction has little to do with the needle. It's about nozzle placement and shape. I don't even need a needle in my airbrush to get it to spray.

The needle is flow control and discharge shape of the liquid.

I'm not here to fight with mate, if it doesn't protrude it doesn't work, it's that simple and that's the point you shot down, spraying and maintenance of spray equipment has been my job for over forty years, so when I say the combination is crucial I'm stating a fact based on knowledge and experience.

I have enough going on in my life right now to not want to deal with idiots, so you just say the word and ill take the same road as Immortal Concepts, It's your call, I like to offer help when I can but I didn't sign for your crap.
 
Hi, Jagardn and Bossman,
Is it possible that the nozzle taper did not mactch either of the two needles you have originally and that by using the nozzle tool you have re shaped the nozzle to match them correctly?
Just a thought!
 
I'm not here to fight with mate, if it doesn't protrude it doesn't work, it's that simple and that's the point you shot down, spraying and maintenance of spray equipment has been my job for over forty years, so when I say the combination is crucial I'm stating a fact based on knowledge and experience.

I have enough going on in my life right now to not want to deal with idiots, so you just say the word and ill take the same road as Immortal Concepts, It's your call, I like to offer help when I can but I didn't sign for your crap.

Dude you can't make statements that are provably partially false, and then get butthurt if someone even starts to question it?

I'm saying I can in fact with every airbrush I own, not need the needle to protrude for them to spray. You are saying that is not possible?? Maybe there are some big spray guns where somehow, some way it is necessary, but for my airbrushes it is NOT, and I'm not gonna let you bully me with bad information.
 
Hi, Jagardn and Bossman,
Is it possible that the nozzle taper did not mactch either of the two needles you have originally and that by using the nozzle tool you have re shaped the nozzle to match them correctly?
Just a thought!

What Jagardn did was put peanutbutter in his gas tank and fixed his transmission leak. Somehow him doing that fixed someone's machining screwup. Which is kinda why we pay so much for Micron parts. For them to be exact.
 
Hi, Jagardn and Bossman,
Is it possible that the nozzle taper did not mactch either of the two needles you have originally and that by using the nozzle tool you have re shaped the nozzle to match them correctly?
Just a thought!

That's a possibility, the needle went deeper into the nozzle without any noticeable change in inner bore diameter. I did get some brass shavings out of the nozzle after the tool was spun in there a few times.
 
Dude you can't make statements that are provably partially false, and then get butthurt if someone even starts to question it?

I'm saying I can in fact with every airbrush I own, not need the needle to protrude for them to spray. You are saying that is not possible?? Maybe there are some big spray guns where somehow, some way it is necessary, but for my airbrushes it is NOT, and I'm not gonna let you bully me with bad information.

Someone asked a question at the start of this thread, that someone wasn't you, so what is about you (aside from the excremente you are obviously smoking)"that makes you think we were trying to help you?

Like I said your an idiot, you have issues and I believe your on the wrong forum to have the sorted, you can dish it out but you can't take it.

Why not start a little poll in the open bar to vote one of us out, I'll hand the whole forum over to you until the results are published, I know for sure my buddies here will be in capable hands with all your very helpful input, not to mention enjoying all of your wondrous art which for some strange reason I can't seem to find.
 
@Madbrush

Have you completely lost your mind? Take what exactly? I'm sorry if you're wrong. Don't blow a gasket. I've been wrong before, but I don't remember losing my mind over it.
This isn't a popularity contest. It's about posting legit information and not made up facts.
 
I'm not here to fight with mate, if it doesn't protrude it doesn't work, it's that simple and that's the point you shot down, spraying and maintenance of spray equipment has been my job for over forty years, so when I say the combination is crucial I'm stating a fact based on knowledge and experience.

I have enough going on in my life right now to not want to deal with idiots, so you just say the word and ill take the same road as Immortal Concepts, It's your call, I like to offer help when I can but I didn't sign for your crap.

Im not getting involved as i dont know the proper workings but i see you mentioned Immortal Concepts, i sent him a pm end of november as i was wondering what had happened to him. Did he just leave the forum??
 
What Jagardn did was put peanutbutter in his gas tank and fixed his transmission leak. Somehow him doing that fixed someone's machining screwup. Which is kinda why we pay so much for Micron parts. For them to be exact.

I've heard of a few instances of poor quality Micron nozzles either snapping or splitting. They aren't perfect either.
The Micron is a nice brush, but I must say that most times I never even use mine. My Evo AL Plus and Infinity see much more use.
 
I've heard of a few instances of poor quality Micron nozzles either snapping or splitting. They aren't perfect either.
The Micron is a nice brush, but I must say that most times I never even use mine. My Evo AL Plus and Infinity see much more use.

That is true, and unfortunate. Same as your Infinity. Those are gorgeous brushes and shouldn't have problems. The Germans are usually the ones you don't second guess with machining.
 
Back
Top