Golden High Flow, why wont it work

[Airbrush Dreams]

Well that's exactly the same stuff I was using up until now, so now I would assume that the warning on the back maybe referred to the old Golden colours or paints, I have really had no problems at all using this, even the guy who first sold it to me in the shop recommended it to me, he even said that most golden mediums are compatible with other brand acrylics, having said that he also told me the fake parts he sold me for my HP- BH were not fake at all

Now watch they will change the name we will all get confused again!


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[Malky]

Now watch they will change the name we will all get confused again!


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LOL, why not try a little of that in your CI to see what it does it could be the answer to all your problems, I know there a some here using Golden's GAC mediums along with other brands so it might just be what you need, if it has the effect I think it will, then you get the use of all your paints.

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

LOL, why not try a little of that in your CI to see what it does it could be the answer to all your problems, I know there a some here using Golden's GAC mediums along with other brands so it might just be what you need, if it has the effect I think it will, then you get the use of all your paints.

Most definitely I will be trying the Createx Tans base first and then I will try the Golden airbrush medium with it. The only way I could see an issue is if the chemical makeup is too far off it may screw with the paint and make the cross link and erasing ability no longer available.


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[Malky]

Most definitely I will be trying the Createx Tans base first and then I will try the Golden airbrush medium with it. The only way I could see an issue is if the chemical makeup is too far off it may screw with the paint and make the cross link and erasing ability no longer available.


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I doubt that, if anything I reckon it will make it better based on the info you got from the rep, I've ben able to erase and scratch my work up to three days after, might be more but I've just had tostop with a painting after leaving it for a full week so that is clearly too long

 

[markjthomson]

Now that is curiouser and curiouser... upshot is from the manufacturer the airbrush medium is fine with high flow...

 

[Malky]

Now that is curiouser and curiouser... upshot is from the manufacturer the airbrush medium is fine with high flow...

It is suspiciously beginning to look that way

 

[basepaint]

Most definitely I will be trying the Createx Tans base first and then I will try the Golden airbrush medium with it. The only way I could see an issue is if the chemical makeup is too far off it may screw with the paint and make the cross link and erasing ability no longer available.


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Just don't use the createx reducer, in the black it gums that up

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

Now that is curiouser and curiouser... upshot is from the manufacturer the airbrush medium is fine with high flow...

Oh and she did say if things don't work all I need do is cap it up and send it to them and they will refund me. Now if they hold true to that. Then they got my business.


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[markjthomson]

I've been very happy with them. I want to get some com-art to do a comparison!

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

I've been very happy with them. I want to get some com-art to do a comparison!

I have used Comart and found it to be a bit thin for my liking. I tried erasing with it on Strathmore 100lb Bristol paper and it was a bit too difficult for that substrate. I have never used them on canvas. I actually still have some old stuff in my basement. To me CIP and Comart work almost the same.


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[Airbrush Dreams]

Gesso is on its way. Nice bunch of people at Golden. Just wish they would have kept their airbrush line of paints going because they were finer pigments and in most cases a hue instead of the true pigment. What I mean by that is instead of using a raw umber pigment they mix out of the finer primary pigment a raw umber hue.


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[Malky]

I have used Comart and found it to be a bit thin for my liking. I tried erasing with it on Strathmore 100lb Bristol paper and it was a bit too difficult for that substrate. I have never used them on canvas. I actually still have some old stuff in my basement. To me CIP and Comart work almost the same.


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I have actually used Com-Art and liked it, really the only reason I stopped using it was because here I can only find it in sets of small bottles most of which doesn't or didn't get used so ended up with two and three bottles of weird colours I didn't need and just got thrown away, I tried to find bigger bottles loose and could only import them and the shipping killed that idea, if I could find it here I would definitely use it again because it worked well on my Schoelershammer paper and I had no problems with tip dry either.

 

[Airbrush Dreams]

I don't mind com-art either but like you said you can only find it in small bottles. They used to cary it in my local art store but wasn't cheap.


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[Arron]

Returning to the original question, which I guess could be summed up as:
is it a fair to expect to be able to spray a continuous, sub 1mm line using Golden High Flow straight from the bottle ?

and :
is it a fair to expect to be able to spray a continuous, sub 1mm line using Golden High Flow thinned with either water or the manufacturers recommended medium?


I'm still wondering about this. I've started filtering the paint (no difference in this instance). I've also tried in different weather conditions including a super-humid rainy day which was enough to make a bit of cardboard left outside under cover go floppy. Still no improvement.

I also wet to our local art supplier to buy some medium but they didnt have any, so have to continue without it.

Anyway, I was noticing a post by Airbrush Dreams, here http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/doing-an-experiment.16586/ where his experiences seemed to be the same as mine. So even though a number of posters above claimed to have no problem with GHF doing detail, including straight out of the bottle, I'm wondering whether it is the definition of detail that causes the differences in understanding. See, most times I've seen people do very thin lines they are doing things like fur or whiskers which requires a stop/start motion - usually a very thin dagger stroke which kind of peters out towards the end anyway. I can do the short strokes no problem - when I start each stroke the tip dry or whatever it is somehow resolves itself -its when I try to do continuous that the GHF seems to come up short.

So is there any satisfied GHF user out there who is prepared to resolve this by setting up to do a continuous very fine line using GHF ? Well maybe not continuous, 600mm long would be enough to prove the point.

I'm betting GHF wont do the job, but people dont notice because there isnt a big call for very long thin lines. I'm not so sure I need them myself now, but would like to resolve the issue to make sure I"m getting the best out of my paints.

Either way it goes, I reckon your result will help just about every beginner because we all go through the same issues with tip dry, lines and detail and its a long process sorting out whether the problem is you or the paint.

cheers
Arron

 

[Malky]

Returning to the original question, which I guess could be summed up as:
is it a fair to expect to be able to spray a continuous, sub 1mm line using Golden High Flow straight from the bottle ?

and :
is it a fair to expect to be able to spray a continuous, sub 1mm line using Golden High Flow thinned with either water or the manufacturers recommended medium?


I'm still wondering about this. I've started filtering the paint (no difference in this instance). I've also tried in different weather conditions including a super-humid rainy day which was enough to make a bit of cardboard left outside under cover go floppy. Still no improvement.

I also wet to our local art supplier to buy some medium but they didnt have any, so have to continue without it.

Anyway, I was noticing a post by Airbrush Dreams, here http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/doing-an-experiment.16586/ where his experiences seemed to be the same as mine. So even though a number of posters above claimed to have no problem with GHF doing detail, including straight out of the bottle, I'm wondering whether it is the definition of detail that causes the differences in understanding. See, most times I've seen people do very thin lines they are doing things like fur or whiskers which requires a stop/start motion - usually a very thin dagger stroke which kind of peters out towards the end anyway. I can do the short strokes no problem - when I start each stroke the tip dry or whatever it is somehow resolves itself -its when I try to do continuous that the GHF seems to come up short.

So is there any satisfied GHF user out there who is prepared to resolve this by setting up to do a continuous very fine line using GHF ? Well maybe not continuous, 600mm long would be enough to prove the point.

I'm betting GHF wont do the job, but people dont notice because there isnt a big call for very long thin lines. I'm not so sure I need them myself now, but would like to resolve the issue to make sure I"m getting the best out of my paints.

Either way it goes, I reckon your result will help just about every beginner because we all go through the same issues with tip dry, lines and detail and its a long process sorting out whether the problem is you or the paint.

cheers
Arron

It's not fair to expect to be able to spray a continuous sub 1mm line with Golden straight from the bottle, because your brush needs to get in close to be able to pull that line, which means your pressure needs to go down considerably and generally the pressure you end up using isn't enough to carry just about any paint without it breaking and displaying the characteristics that you showed on your own photo in you first post, any paint at all that would be capable of doing this will usually be a lot thinner than golden, for Scminke aero colour was previously advertised as being "pre-thinned and ready for use", com-art and E'tac are also somewhat thinner than Golden and you have far more chance with those, I use Golden but I haven't claimed anywhere to be able to do this, if I had I would be a liar because most here who know me also know I have permanent shakes so most of the time I have to improvise, my only claim was that Golden does what I wan't it to do which in my case is a lot of erasing and scratching to achieve graceful flowing line, for detail I will rest my hand on the substrate and if I can't do that i use a maul stick, since all my work is maximum 30 cm in length, I'll never need a 60 cm line, it's wrong to think the airbrush will do absolutely everything for you, one would have to be very special to achieve that so those of us who aren't special have to employ other tools and methods, even Dru Blair uses his "split frisket" technique to achieve hair thin lines.

It is fair to expect to be able pull finer continuous sub 1mm lines with Golden (and most other paints too) that's how the rest of us would do it because as I mentioned you have get in close and drop the pressure, but just as with neat paint you need to have the control to be able to do that.

I could easily perform some tests to show you what my Golden colours can do thinned or neat, I could do it with every colour I have and with or without the mediums I have, but the problem is the test would only be relevant to me due to many different extra factors, I have never, don't now and never will use anything other than recommended cleaners and maintenance mediums in my brush, even if I have exactly the same brush as you have it will behave different to yours as will anyone else's, I don't use mediums from other paint systems in my current system, and even the hand holding the brush will behave differently, I could perform exactly the same test as Airbrush Dreams did but I can guarantee different results based on my brush alone, I have the side feed eclipse which has 0.35 nozzle same as yours, AB did the test using his micron which I believe is either o.18 or o.23, Golden actually states that most of their colours achieve best results through 0.2 or bigger, and not the 0.5 as he stated, looking at their chart only raw sienna could be pushed through a 0.15 nozzle, so if you had any plans of buying a nice infinity stay away form Golden unless you want to do monochrome work using only raw sienna,

My advice if you are not happy with Golden is to simply stop using it and try something else, I think if the Aldi stuff is doing so well for you that it must have started out as almost water to begin with, if it was as thick as Golden and had similar pigments it would display the same problems, another thing to consider with any paint is that you can thin the paint but you cannot thin the pigment, adding transparent mediums and flow additives and reducers enhance flow due to there being less friction form the pigment since there is less pigment in the total volume of fluid.

 

[Squishy]

I have no experience with Golden (I am a Wicked girl, and have none of the tip dry or flow issues that some folks don't like - it really is a case of get to know your paint well, and some brands just don't click with people. I don't Like Trident, and n0t overly keen on E'tac, it's horses for courses, and what suits the way you work) , however I am nosey and don't like to be left out so I will chime in anyway.

I am very familiar with the eclipse, was my only brush for a couple of years, and looking at your photo the lines with the Aldi and Tamiya, the lines don't look as crisp as I would expect them to be. This may just be due to the photo, the paint themselves (the tamiya looks a little better) or maybe the nozzle isn't as clean as it could be. If you did the tests one after the other, then even though you cleaned in between (by the way I say ditch the windex,) the nozzle could still not be clean and even deteriorate, and as the golden was the third paint it could possibly be a factor. Any residue (and an amount you wouldn't believe can hide in a nozzle that appears spotless) from the other paints could also affect the golden and could be gumming it up. Before testing any paint you really need to know your nozzle is clean as a whistle, I always clean, then when I think its clean, clean again. Any spongyness or stickyness from gently pushing the needle in and out will have me then clean again if needed. Then you know any issues are solely down to paint.

Another thing is finding the sweetspot of air/reduction/paint for optimum flow. That is not the same for the same colours within a specific brand (some may be more pigment heavy than others for example, and why white and black usually need more reduction) let alone between different brands, and they can react differently to outside factors such as temp and humidity etc. So you need to dial in each paint brand individually, what works for tamiya, may be far from what is best for Golden.

If Golden is what you wish to use as its suitable for the type of painting you want to do (I like Wicked because it is a multi surface all rounder, I like the colour pop and lightfastedness for vehicles, and the fact I can also do fine art and fabric etc - but it is not a master of any in particular, so if I was only going to paint portraits I may consider the illustration line instead for example), and it's convenient and easy to get, then you just need to learn it. (If it was just a random choice, then maybe another brand would suit you better). I glanced through the other posts and understand there was some confusion about additives, get that straight in your mind, then scientifically start experimenting. Skimmed milk is a generalisation of paint reduction, but it is a starting point, and for a controllable paint without too much overspray you don't want your psi too high (with my eclipse I use around 20-25 for general purposes, and dial it down to 10-15 for detail - a bit vague but my regulator isn't too accurate.) So for a nice fine line you will want low pressure, and add reducer etc, drop by drop until you get the flow, and line crispness you want. That then becomes your go to base mixture that you can then adjust by a drop or two more or less depending on colour used and conditions etc. It becomes second nature and you don't even think about it after a while, you just squirt in a bit of each and it just works.

Sorry if that is teaching you how to suck eggs, but I thought it may be useful for anyone having paint problems in general who might come across this thread.

Someone did mention I think, that it could just be a bad bottle. With Wicked how paint is stored and temperatures it is exposed to even before it reaches a shop, can affect the paint if the suppliers have not been mindful. And storage at home can affect it too if too hot or cold. It is not usual, but it has happened to me once, and Wicked replaced the bottle no worries, I am guessing that Golden could be affected that way also??

 

[basepaint]

One of the first things I do with the golden is mix the paint in the bottle with a small paint mixer (you can get them at most art stores) That way you are sure the paint pigment is mixed and not sitting at the bottom of the bottle.My reduction start at 2 to 1 reducer to paint but may end up 7 or 8 to 1 depending on the pigment/color and as for tip dry I add a drop or two of there extender (keeps the paint wet longer)