Harder steenbeck vs iwata I need feedback asapp!

[Robbyrockett2]

Are those Mr. Hobby ones on par with the HP-C or H&S Evolution? Or are they just really good for how much they cost?

770 is an iwata micron.
270 and
289 on par w hp plus series
To put it in it's simplest terms
Possibly a shade better than plus series depending on if you like certain features like a removable head and built in Mac valve or not.

Then you have the 290 which essentially is an hp-th.

All exactly equal in quality with their iwata counterparts.

They just slap on a different name and change a few cosmetic features.

 

[V-Twin]

What is the purpose for pfte seals?

Snorider, the H&S Evolution CRplus has a full set of these "Teflon" seals throughout the brush.
The Evolution Silverline did not have them originally, but I now believe they do have them.

Teflon seals allow you to use solvent based paints and liquids without damage to the seals, whereas if they were rubber ones
then they would not last very long at and even melt if left in contact with solvents for too long.

 

[V-Twin]

Are those Mr. Hobby ones on par with the HP-C or H&S Evolution? Or are they just really good for how much they cost?

If you look back at the earlier thread of mine ( https://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/importing-airbursh-from-usa.21041/ )
you may find a heap of real good info on the PS-770. I asked a lot of questions from very knowledgeable peeps on here and got
some great feedback, so mush so, that I trusted their info and bought a PS-770.

I really like my Evolution CRplus, particularly with the 0.2mm needle installed and which I use the most, switching to the 0.4mm
needle when I want backgrounds covered or laying a varnish coat over the picture for protection at the end.

I am only just starting to use the PS-770 as only had it a few weeks, but on initial trials, it sprayed a nice fine mist with its 0.18mm
needle and seems to clean up easy enough too, just like the H&S is a cinch to clean (possibly a little easier than the PS-770 is).

 

[Snorider]

It would be interesting to know if they are good knock offs or if they are rebranded from the same factory.

 

[Leakyvalve]

It would be interesting to know if they are good knock offs or if they are rebranded from the same factory.

This was discussed heavily HERE

 

[Robbyrockett2]

It would be interesting to know if they are good knock offs or if they are rebranded from the same factory.

Lol

 

[Robbyrockett2]

See here
https://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/fuso-seiki-factory.20155/

 

[Robbyrockett2]

Or if you aren't into all the heavy reading... In short all the Japanese makes are made by rich.
Including iwata.

 

[Janos]

- H&S airbrushes are nickel plated by default /no chrome/, CRPlus series have chrome plating only
- Ultra/EVO/Grafo/Infinity do share the same design, key parts are interchangeable /needle, nozzle, aircap.... / The cheapest Ultra will perform at very similar level of the `high end` Infinity.
- H&S moved to PTFE seals on all models, couple of years ago
- As they all based of the on the original Grafo design /1996/ having interchangeable nozzle, they share the pros and cons as well. You might like or hate it, I personally prefer Iwata Eclipse interpretation of interchangeable design.

On PS770
- Following the recommendation on this forum , i got one. And never regretted it.
- Comparing PS770 to my CM-C+ v1, basically they are the same. Parts interchangeable etc
- I believe in the urban legend that Microns and PS770 manufactured at the same plant /FUSO, BB Rich, whichever/
- PS770 is nothing like a cheap knock off, it is a real deal for half of the Microns price

 

[Robbyrockett2]

- H&S airbrushes are nickel plated by default /no chrome/, CRPlus series have chrome plating only
- Ultra/EVO/Grafo/Infinity do share the same design, key parts are interchangeable /needle, nozzle, aircap.... / The cheapest Ultra will perform at very similar level of the `high end` Infinity.
- H&S moved to PTFE seals on all models, couple of years ago
- As they all based of the on the original Grafo design /1996/ having interchangeable nozzle, they share the pros and cons as well. You might like or hate it, I personally prefer Iwata Eclipse interpretation of interchangeable design.

On PS770
- Following the recommendation on this forum , i got one. And never regretted it.
- Comparing PS770 to my CM-C+ v1, basically they are the same. Parts interchangeable etc
- I believe in the urban legend that Microns and PS770 manufactured at the same plant /FUSO, BB Rich, whichever/
- PS770 is nothing like a cheap knock off, it is a real deal for half of the Microns price

Not really a legend or speculation anymore.

 

[Janos]

Not really a legend or speculation anymore.

You made an excellent PI solving the FusoSeiki mystery.
I had Rich AS2, and Tamiya HG - labeled as BB Rich products, I have the impression they are produced by a different plant than Iwata or GSI.
It might be that the 2 Hokushin facility, you discovered, have different machinery resulting in a slight, but noticeable differences in the parts.

 

[Robbyrockett2]

You made an excellent PI solving the FusoSeiki mystery.
I had Rich AS2, and Tamiya HG - labeled as BB Rich products, I have the impression they are produced by a different plant than Iwata or GSI.
It might be that the 2 Hokushin facility, you discovered, have different machinery resulting in a slight, but noticeable differences in the parts.

I would imagine so.
That and whatever changes took place when they closed bb rich and just became rich.
Same time iwata changed to the plus series and all of their nozzles saw a change of some kind.

 

[Janos]

I would imagine so.
That and whatever changes took place when they closed bb rich and just became rich.
Same time iwata changed to the plus series and all of their nozzles saw a change of some kind.

Do you know what is the annual volume of the `Iwata`s production? H&S published 20.000 units produced in 2013.

 

[Robbyrockett2]

Yes ,thats easy , annual volume of iwatas production=0


I know iwata Medea U.S. gets 800-1500 monthly from hokushin.
So I guess about 12000 for North America.

 

[Janos]

How the annual volumes of the branded airbrushes /Iwata, HS, Badger/ compare to the Chinese copies? I guess Chinese ones might outperform, in terms of volumes, what branded ones produce altogether.

 

[Robbyrockett2]

How the annual volumes of the branded airbrushes /Iwata, HS, Badger/ compare to the Chinese copies? I guess Chinese ones might outperform, in terms of volumes, what branded ones produce altogether.

I'm sure they do. Probably by a lot.
Especially if you count Chinese produced branded ones.

I think neos do as much volume as the rest of iwata

 

[Janos]

I assume the Chinese copies affected the industry quite badly than, taking market share from quality products

 

[Leakyvalve]

I assume the Chinese copies affected the industry quite badly than, taking market share from quality products

People that actually stick with airbrushing usually upgrade. Who knows how many people quit because of a bad airbrush.

 

[Robbyrockett2]

I assume the Chinese copies affected the industry quite badly than, taking market share from quality products

Hard to say. Might have helped keep it alive. Commercial uses are few and far between since everything became digital. So it's often hard to justify the cost of a good one.
I compare this to watchmakers tools. Many of them the only way to get a decent one is buying antiques made once upon a time in EEurope. Basically all major brands went defunct before the influx of cheap Chinese goods.
Now that the Chinese stuff is out there introducing people to that hobby the price of those quality antique tools has more than quadrupled in the past 20 years.
At least one company re-opened.

How many people would have never bothered airbrushing at all if the minimum brush to try out double action were all $150-200? Plus a $200-600 compressor.
Part of why at least two of the big brands now offer Chinese produced entry level brushes and not one offers a compressor that isn't Chinese made.

 

[Janos]

A result of quick google search: Chinese Ningbo /Former Fengda/ reporting production capacity at 500.000 airbrush sets. While HS reported 20.000 for 2013. The numbers are shocking. Are there other Chinese manufactures out there?