Hello From Florida USA !!!

[Rob Afton]

Greetings My name is Rob, I am 31 years old I live in Florida in the United States. I have always had a strong interest in art of all kinds. I've been Active in art and scale modeling since I can remember. Theses days mainly focus on miniature wargaming models, although I occasionally do other pieces illustrations or abstract art. My first experiences with an airbrush were with a siphon badger that was given to me by my father when I was around 11 years old. It was a re-gift that my father never used. Someone gave the brush to him with the intent of him using it too spray golf balls with red stripes for use on his golf range. The age of 11 probably was not the right age for an airbrush especially without anyone to teach me . As you may have guessed this airbrush didn't last very long
I bent the needle the first time I cleaned it after clogging it up with model master enamel model railroad paint. About 3 years ago I started using a single action central pneumonic harbor freight airbrush single action. I enjoyed using it and was getting pretty good results out of it. About a year ago I got my first double action gravity feed masters G-22 followed by a master G-44 and my newest one is an iwata HP-C plus.
I will most likely continue using my masters brushes as well. My airbrush motto is
" it's not the brush it's the artist" when I was shopping for my first gravity airbrush I'd hear people tell me "you can't get the same results with the cheap airbrushes that you can with an expensive airbrush. I watched friends buy top of the line brushes and do really bad work. That's when I started to believe my motto. I am really happy to be a part of this forum and was so happy when I got all positive feedback from my first post. Honestly I was expecting everyone to tell me I bought a fake iwata since it was direct from Japan and had different package and no test spray. Quite the opposite I was reassured that others have had the same issues and it was in fact more likely than not genuine! Very happy to be here and help when I can! Look forward to reading posts for years to come!

 

[KaP]

Hi and welcome from Canada.

 

[The dude]

Hi and welcome from the U.K.

 

[haasje dutchairbrush]

Welcome

 

[markjthomson]

Welcome from New Zealand

 

[basepaint]

Welcome to the forum, and if you have any hair on your head don't worry you will be pulling it out soon!

 

[WhiteKnight]

Welcome from Canada

 

[JackEb]

Welcome from Australia Rob.
you motto works is valid once experience has been gained. Like any tool there is a learning process, and a cheap tool doesn't always make that journey easier.
There are artists here that can do amazing things without using an 'elite' brush, but they know art theory and have been handling an airbrush for decades.
A good tool will make the experience easier. There are members here that have bought airbrushes direct from Japan without issue so you should be off to a good start.

 

[Rob Afton]

Welcome to the forum, and if you have any hair on your head don't worry you will be pulling it out soon!

I am already there tonight! heading to a help thread now!

 

[jagardn]

Welcome from SW Florida.
I wouldn't say you can get the same results with a cheap brush, there is a difference between cheap and good value.
The Iwata Eclipse is a great value. It is relatively cheap, but still costs many times more than a Chinese Knockoff, yet it blows them away when it comes to consistency. There is a large learning curve in Airbrushing, but once you get it down, it's well worth the time and effort.

 

[Rob Afton]

Welcome from SW Florida.
I wouldn't say you can get the same results with a cheap brush, there is a difference between cheap and good value.
The Iwata Eclipse is a great value. It is relatively cheap, but still costs many times more than a Chinese Knockoff, yet it blows them away when it comes to consistency. There is a large learning curve in Airbrushing, but once you get it down, it's well worth the time and effort.

No doubt! My Hp-c plus is my now my hands down favorite brush, but my masters g-22 and g-44 preform very well in my hand, and will always be the brushes I started learning on, the learning journey never ends!
I also do good stuff with my E-22 as well but it's the fuss and time that goes along with getting good results. The masters are by no means my iwata but I've already cut my teeth on the masters line and if anything it feels like that made my first time using my iwata Hp-C plus a dream even so, I still use my masters just as often cause I can be lazier with it and not care TCP will send brand new if it breaks within a year.
if someone has the cash then go for the nicest brush you want.
Personally, I wouldn't and did not buy a high end brush to start because I read that most people break the first brush they use , I know I did.
I am In process of moving houses and setting up my new studio.
then i will get some finished work posted up on here gimme 2 months at most.
I am by no means a pro illustrator or model painter.
I've been learning by trial and error with my masters brushes for 2 full years.
Now that I got an iwata it's a dream come true! I just can't get Certain paints to cooperate but from my exp with acrylic and AB's that's par for course, every manufactures acrylic thins and works diferent. I wish everything I thinned would spray like wicked colors/ createx.
I also like Vallajo model air, citadel model air. I have so many pots and droper bottles of their non-air line
I want to thin and spray but they are being stubborn !

Welcome from SW Florida.
I wouldn't say you can get the same results with a cheap brush, there is a difference between cheap and good value.
The Iwata Eclipse is a great brush!
It is relatively cheap, but still costs many times more than a Chinese Knockoff, yet it blows them away when it comes to consistency. There is a large learning curve in Airbrushing, but once you get it down, it's well worth the time and effort.

The HP-CS is a great brush!!!!
I took a class that taught with this brush I had a option to buy discounted and I shoulda bought it. My masters are all .2-.3 -.5 mm needles , I miss that .35 mm for
when I need to base coat or when working scenery, I use the .5 but it was nice to have the .35 it felt more versatile. Switching needles is kinda a pain mid job, (why am I getting
so much more lazy as I get older)
I will prob be picking up an HP-CS to compliment my Hp-C plus.
The C-plus is my go-to for 28mm wargaming but larger 1/16 scale cars and it's too detailed of a spray, I hear there's a conversion for the hp-cs and HP-C plus to go to a .5mm. But as I said that's a pain, now I just use multiple brushes. There's always room for another iwata and now that I am confident that I know what I am doing more I prob won't buy anything but iwata here on out but
That's one thing I love about my masters is the needle nozzel don't cost over 80.00, iwata needle/nozzle cost as much as my masters airbrush lmfao! Not knocking iwata they are super great quality! I just won't dis my masters as they have been good to me
I will keep them working though and use them with hard paint that is abusive to brushes without coated needles. The eclipse isn't coated but the hp-c plus Is. It's mainly enamel and automotive paint and solvents that's hard on some brushes.

 

[Squishy]

Hi Rob welcome from the uk. I agree that it's not the tool but the artist - up to a point. The cheap knock offs are very hit and miss, so many of them don't work properly at all, or only work well for a short time, and people think they can't learn or give up, when really they are being held back by poorly manufactured brushes, using inferior materials that just don't last beyond o few uses. Of course you can get lucky and get one that works well, but it is often down to luck. No matter what your artistic ability, vision or ability to learn, it is so much easier to do with a tool that is reliable and consistent.

The cheap brushes often don't make financial sense either. They need much more maintenance, so while parts are cheaper, the rate they need to be replaced is much higher, and really it is not worth replacing them, but getting a whole new gun. Do this a couple of times, and you may as well have just bought a better brush in the first place LOL (And yes I am speaking from experience here ) Plus most people want to upgrade after a relatively short amount of time anyway - so I always recommend buying the best you can right from the start, and if necessary waiting a bit longer before starting out. Besides anything else, it is much easier to learn with a decent brush, and you can concentrate on technique and not whether the brush is working properly etc.

But it's certainly true you do not have to spend big money. In fact I always recommend the HP-CS as the perfect brush to learn on (though any entry level brush will be better than a knock off) paint reduction is a bit less fiddly than the really fine nozzled brushes, and the self centring nozzle, and trigger assembly are less fiddly too and so it is easier to clean and maintain. It is good to learn on, but it's ability to do really fine lines makes it something you won't grow out of - it was my only brush for almost 3 years, and I only ever had to replace the needle and nozzle once. I do have a micron now, and super fine detail is much easier with it - not that the hp-cs can't do it, but the micron makes it a breeze. So yes the artist definitely makes the painting - but the better the brush, the easier and less restricting it is to be able to do so. IMO anyway

 

[Rob Afton]

Hi Rob welcome from the uk. I agree that it's not the tool but the artist - up to a point. The cheap knock offs are very hit and miss, so many of them don't work properly at all, or only work well for a short time, and people think they can't learn or give up, when really they are being held back by poorly manufactured brushes, using inferior materials that just don't last beyond o few uses. Of course you can get lucky and get one that works well, but it is often down to luck. No matter what your artistic ability, vision or ability to learn, it is so much easier to do with a tool that is reliable and consistent.

The cheap brushes often don't make financial sense either. They need much more maintenance, so while parts are cheaper, the rate they need to be replaced is much higher, and really it is not worth replacing them, but getting a whole new gun. Do this a couple of times, and you may as well have just bought a better brush in the first place LOL (And yes I am speaking from experience here ) Plus most people want to upgrade after a relatively short amount of time anyway - so I always recommend buying the best you can right from the start, and if necessary waiting a bit longer before starting out. Besides anything else, it is much easier to learn with a decent brush, and you can concentrate on technique and not whether the brush is working properly etc.

But it's certainly true you do not have to spend big money. In fact I always recommend the HP-CS as the perfect brush to learn on (though any entry level brush will be better than a knock off) paint reduction is a bit less fiddly than the really fine nozzled brushes, and the self centring nozzle, and trigger assembly are less fiddly too and so it is easier to clean and maintain. It is good to learn on, but it's ability to do really fine lines makes it something you won't grow out of - it was my only brush for almost 3 years, and I only ever had to replace the needle and nozzle once. I do have a micron now, and super fine detail is much easier with it - not that the hp-cs can't do it, but the micron makes it a breeze. So yes the artist definitely makes the painting - but the better the brush, the easier and less restricting it is to be able to do so. IMO anyway

I agree 100% I should have been more specific aside from one harbor freight airbrush I haven't tried any Chinese knock offs aka no name at all! I have only used masters aside from the 1 horrible fright siphon and yes that set me back in learning.
The masters are Chinese made but at least it's got a name brand behind it, albeit a cheaper name. The knock off no names on eBay aren't very good from what I hear. I can't confirm as the only cheap brush I use are masters and they work well for me.
There is a guy who comes to the GAmes workshop and does amazing blends with a no-needle single action masters E-22 knock off made by central pneumonic. I just thought I would clear that up since it did sound like I was supporting Chinese no name knock offs. Really just masters and as I said I have no complaints with my G-44 or g-22
Aside from wishing they had that .35 needle. As I said before all this iwata talk has me wanting to add a hp-cs to compliment my HP-c plus.
I actually found a legit guy from Japan on etsy that sells all iwata cheaper than you can get them for in USA. Gotta be careful I called iwata and confirmed it was legit via upc. Box hologram batch number etc,
At his point when I can buy iwata direct from Japanese retail outlets at 50% cost I don't see a reason to buy masters anymore 70.00 for
Hp-cs or 30.00 for masters G-23 is significantly less of a price difference than 250.00 vs 30.00 the only brush I may get from USA iwata is a Micron cause then it's been tested and QC testing you don't get that when you get them from Japan hence the reduced price.
I still can't complain about my masters brushes and as a company even The compressor I have that is made by them for air brush depo works great as well 2+ years now and running! My advice to anyone that is learning on a Chinese made brush even a masters and feels they can't do it should try a quality brush like the hp-cs before giving up. The rest of the people who have succes with Chinese brushes like masters are prob ready to buy an iwata soon anyways. I really love iwata that's only reason I went masters was the similarities and I wasn't confident investing in something I wasn't sure about. I was lucky to have a positive experience with them
but once I used an iwata I felt like "where have you been all my life" replace all brushes with iwata as soon as the needles die in my masters! cheers !

 

[CALz AyrWKz]

Welcome to the forum Rob. I have two HP-C's and a Micron. The HP-C's are great workhorses. You can't go wrong with them. But there definitely is a difference when you come to the Micron. Its an awesome fine detail brush. Looking forward to seeing your works.

 

[Rob Afton]

Welcome to the forum Rob. I have two HP-C's and a Micron. The HP-C's are great workhorses. You can't go wrong with them. But there definitely is a difference when you come to the Micron. Its an awesome fine detail brush. Looking forward to seeing your works.

Is there a big difference between the .35 eclipse and my .3 hp-c plus,
I contacted my buddy in Japan to try to buy me an eclipse and it turns out all the eclipses in Japan are only .3 for the Japanese domestic version
I found a guy on eBay that claims it's the us version .35 eclipse but I had another guy who said it was and double checked and I was actually correct that it's .3 not .35. He listed as a Japan domestic model.
I've noticed my .3 brushes are great for figures 28mn -60mm but the larger tanks and vehicles it's way too narrow to get good base coats I can swap it for a .5 that I have and then it seems too large at the smAll end strike. Is it worth it to get an eclipse or is the .35 vs the .3 too similar to really notice. From my own research
It would appear that a hp-c and eclipse .35 would make a nice team

 

[CALz AyrWKz]

Honestly, I think that you wouldn't have too much of a difference. I would buy one or the other and then when you're ready get yourself either a brush with a larger needle/nozzle combination for bigger work or a brush with a small needle/nozzle for more detailed work. Depending on what you will be doing. I think, for most people, the combination of either one of those with a micron is a good combination. Unless, of course, you want to do bigger work such as flames on a car, but the Eclipse can handle quite a range. Once you get some experience behind the brush, you can pull a really fine line with the Eclipse and get some great coverage for larger work as well. So, in summary, either one would be a great purchase. The HP-C or the HP-CS.

 

[Rob Afton]

Well I already have no problem with the fine line on my HP-C plus it's the wider range, but I already own a larger needle nozzel my master G-22 and G-44 have 3 each .2,.3,.5 needle nozzel and yes the .5 is wide. I was just wondering if that .35 nozzel on eclips would get a thicker line than my hp-c and as far as microns go for what I do with models, custom microns aren't the right tool. They don't spray regular acrylic without clogging. But they are a great illustration brush my friend that does murals owns one and it's really quality. He has the .18 and .20. I love the microns but don't see it working for wargaming as well as my Hp-c plus. That being said I bet I could do nice graphics on my tanks and larger stuff with the micron! Also if I get better at Airbrush illustration I'll definitely buy one ! Thank you for saving me 100-180.00 on not buying a eclipse yet or ever unless my workhorse master g-22 breaks I've had it for 2 years so it may be close. Right now my set up is TC-828 compressor with a split valve. 10ft air houses with in line trap,
I have iwata Pistol grip filters on all 3 brushes
My baby and hands down fav now is my;
Iwata Hp-c plus
Then a
Masters G-22 with .2-.3-.5 needle/noz I bought this bundled with compressor
Masters G-44 with .2-.3-.5 needle/noz I actually own 2 of these brushes;
(when I got it a year ago
they sent me a whole new air vrush cause nozzel broke in shipping told me to keep the other on
That's TCP global for you! I doubt they would let you keep an iwata that arrived damaged)
So given what I am working with now, and if I am reading you right you feel buying an HP-CS is kinda pointless and will not give me anybenifits asides from a better 2nd spare brush than my masters line ? if anything buy a custom micron when I get better at illustration or decide I want to paint intricate graphics on models? Maybe If I can find a deal on a eclipse I may get one anyhow just to have a better quality spare brush. But for now the 100+ will be better spent on a vented booth since I won't be able to spray in a junk bathroom in my new house in Florida with most acrylic they don't always work well outside due to humidity and heat unless high flow.
On a side note I have the brushes configured and tuned as follows
the g-44 is with the .2 noz/needle I am using this as a knockoff poor mans micron
The G-22 has the .5 and the
Hp-c I have the .3 workhorse.
Is there any other way I should configure the masters brushes
Or is it Just preference.
I've been watching the air brushed Galaxy illustration on you tube and the tutorial says you need a quick change air brush. Is That's a siphon feed model with the jars or is quick change of colors a standard siphon feed feature or is a quick change a entirely Different brush? The tutorial lady said they were a very cheap low quality brush but work best for the galaxies, I checked TCP global and aside from the masters quick change brush
who makes a good quick color change brush that's cheap ? I know Central pneumonic Has one but they are more trouble than worth the only Chinese made vrush i will use are the masters line.
can I use a gravity feed brushes for Galexys? I do have a needles E-22 that has the glass siphon bottles, I would need a few more bottles but I suppose I can attemp one with that.
Sorry for all the questions you just seemed to be giving some insightful advice so I decided to pick your brain. Thank you for responding to me.

 

[CALz AyrWKz]

I believe they are referring to a quick change airbrush that sells for about $25.00 which I wouldn't recommend. If you want to be able to change colors quickly you should buy a bottom feed brush and some bottles to fit. Most t-shirt artists use them. Its a matter of preference really. I mix my colors on the fly, or if I need a lot of one color I store it in one of the plastic paint pots you can buy at Michaels or Hobby Lobby. My top feed brushes are perfect for what I like to do. But that's not to say I haven't painted t-shirts with them. Like I said its a matter of preference. Now Iwata and all the other brands make bottom feed brushes. You can get the Eclipse HP-BCS, a good bottom feed brush.

You don't need to buy a bottom feed brush to paint a galaxy. Your top feed brush will be just fine. In fact, painting space scenes are loads of fun!

 

[Peter1985]

Hey Rob what's the G44 like with the 2 3 5 needle combo. Looking at buying one from TCP global to send to Australia. Herd alot of good and alot of bad. I've had cheap airbrushes which don't even last a month or the needles bend really easy. What is your experience with them. I also have a iwata hpc plus which I love.

 

[Rob Afton]

Hey Rob what's the G44 like with the 2 3 5 needle combo. Looking at buying one from TCP global to send to Australia. Herd alot of good and alot of bad. I've had cheap airbrushes which don't even last a month or the needles bend really easy. What is your experience with them. I also have a iwata hpc plus which I love.

well I've had my G-44 for around 6 mo my G-22 I've had about 2 years.
The thing I like is TCp stands behind the master line and will replace the entire brush if anything fails outside of wear and tear, that being said both masters brushes have coated needles so you can spray automotive solvent based nasty stuff although I have not myself but the guy at Chicago air brush I spoke to loves the G-44 he was the one who coined the term poor mans micron.
Not even close in terms of proformance and quality but it's good enough for someone new that wants the thin line of a micron with the .2 and that's what will come loaded from factory. This needle nozel won't spray acrylics that are not high flow inks or airbrush paint and I would thin it even if it was but it really sprays nice detail. I've found that any masters brush seems to proform so much more smooth with a tank compressor. My buddy has a neo and honestly it's not as nice as my G-22 masters the model
That basically copied the neo. Neo are not really true iwata a abyways. Aside from my own use and experiences the games workshop I frequent just had an air brush explosion when they relised their air line of paint. The 4 people who bought brushes 1 got a neo, 1 bought a badger and the other two bought masters with tank less compressor but adjustable air-regulator. These all were stone cold beginners and tje two with the masters have produced some nice models with some nice atomized blends
One clogged his up with thick paint cleaned it and it ran fine. All and all if you want a thin line and want to spend 360.00 us less than the lowest end micron around 40.00 us for the G-44 on Amazon, my only complaint with the G-44 is the mac valve isn't that well constructed it dosent leak or anything personally I leave it on full on and set psi on the Tc-828.
In closing if you don't have the money for a micron or in my case the skills I find the detail with the .2 mm to be good enough for me and when I bought it I figured if I get a year out of it I got my money worth 6 mo to go ,