How to control the AB - newb question

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Dag

Guest
I have a H&S 2in1. I find the trigger a little hard to figure out. I dont quite know exactly when the paint starts flowing and not, it doesnt start at once, u must move it x millimeters first. And then its easy to pull it too far back, completely ruining it all if you try to make a detailed line.

The problem is when I need to make an exact line without masking. The AB must be moving before paint starts flowing, this makes it hard to get an exact starting point on finer details. Stopping point is far easier, just move the lever completely to the front..

Example; the dagger stroke Mitch uses for eyelashes in his eye-video. I find it really hard to control where they start and stop, especially cause i feel i need to make the dagger strokes very quickly to get them right.

Is this a silly question? Is the H&S Evolution a hard airbrush to learn with? Is this all just about learning your airbrush and getting the "feel" of it, or are there things I'm just doing plain wrong?:)

Thanks:)

- Dag
 
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Im thinking about paying for some online classes with Mitch, I just think its too early yet:)
 
I don't think its a silly question. I'm actually having the exact same issue with my Krome. I figured it was just lack of experience and hope it'll get better with more muscle memory.
 
Having same issue with badger anthem. I'm a newbie as well I thought it was the brush I guess it is me now that I hear others are having same issue. Nah it's the brush not me.
 
We all go through this at some point and its just down to practise. You have to learn your brush, when it's going to start feeding the paint and when its going to shut off, combine that with the movement of what you're trying to paint and its not easy. This is why we practise dagger strokes and dots etc, it all helps you learn the characteristics of your brush as well as giving you muscle memory and experience of control. Stay at it all of you, it will become natural as you get better..

Lee
 
We all go through this at some point and its just down to practise. You have to learn your brush, when it's going to start feeding the paint and when its going to shut off, combine that with the movement of what you're trying to paint and its not easy. This is why we practise dagger strokes and dots etc, it all helps you learn the characteristics of your brush as well as giving you muscle memory and experience of control. Stay at it all of you, it will become natural as you get better..

Lee

thanks! i like this community.
 
Like jord001 said this is mainly down to practice and getting a feel for your airbrush. If the point at which the brush starts giving paint clearly varies though there is something wrong. Either the nozzle is a tad dirty or you should see how it works with a bit more reduced paint.

Also the H&S range (no clue about the krome) due to it's trigger mechanism will always react a tad late as there is some "elbow room" between pulling the trigger back and the point it connects and actualy starts pushing the needle back. When I'm using these guns I tend to look for the point it actualy gives paint and release the trigger just a tad so it stops and keep it there so from that point on it will react straight away (but this again takes some practice)
 
Learning ya gun is critical as mentioned and no doubt they all react slightly differently but having room to move in ya trigger isn't something I'd live with or want to learn learn. For me as soon as that trigger is pulled, paint must flow, if not, its constant guesswork and maybe ya need to tune your brush a touch or make sure its ultra-clean..Don't know the gun so maybe it is built in but it shldn't be..Try stretching your spring a touch, it may have loosened up a bit if cleaning doesnt solve the problem or even a new spring that has a bit more tension..GL..
 
Just because it bears repeating- it really is just a matter of practice. It's not really the most fun aspect of airbrushing, but everything is built on trigger control.

There is an excersize I do to help with the movement+trigger control+timing, etc that goes into making a line start where you want it to start, end where I want it to end, and, ideally, do what I want in between. It's a simple drill, but it's hard to perfect.

First, draw about 6 lines vertically down your paper. Make it so that they are spaced unevenly, and number them 1 through whatever. Then, just pick a direction (left to right, or right to left), and pick two lines. If you want, bring some dice and roll them to pick lines.
Then, deliberately start your movement and push for air. The idea is to move from side to side as if you are ready to spray at any point, but you try to start and stop your horizontal lines as closely as possible to right on the lines. So, if I chose line 3 and line 5, my hands start to the left of the "1" line, and I try to keep my movement smooth and steady all the way through. I try to make my line start at the "3" line, and continue and stop on the "5" line. Don't worry about getting dead straight lines, or even too much about line thickness. If the line is 1/4" wide, just try to keep it that wide all the way through the movement.

Practice this from left to right, from right to left, down to up, diagonals, etc. If you're like me, you're going to suck at this for a while. lol. Don't worry, just keep at it (along with the usual daggers, dots, and lines stuff).

I also use this type of an excersize to see how responsive an airbrush is. The H&S Infinity I have doesn't do too well at that, and never has. It kind of reminds me of an 80's American luxury car with the really over-boosted steering. You more try to point the car than you do steer it, and there's NO feedback felt until you hear tires squealing (or smell, sometimes). That kind of isolated feeling is what the Infinity reminds me of. Maybe not to Caddy Brougham extremes, but it's a similar lack of feedback.

Whatever you do, DON'T start using the paint pre-set. You need to develop control, which you can't do if you're using training wheels.
 
@RebelAir has a great video tutorial showing a similar method to the one @HCP-draggin mentioned.
Airbrushing Lines Leapfrogging Part 8:
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Watch his other videos too, they're great for newbies.
 
Sorry, just jumping in on this one, (so late) but yes, its practice. Its all in your brain, finger hand controls. Keep at it, and soon, you wont even think about it, it just comes naturally. :)
 
a lot of great responses here, and I understand that practise is the number one key to this.

But if I understand correctly; most airbrushes start giving paint at soon as u pull back the trigger - even just a little bit?

If this is the case, then this is not how my AB works - there's a "dead-zone". This must be a big disadvantage for someone trying to learn?

My AB was recommended by a professional, and was one of the more expensive ABs he sold also... I told him I had never used an AB before.

Can my AB be tweaked to immediately start giving paint? Is stretching the spring (as mentioned above) the way to fix this? The trigger is also a bit heavy, or hard, to pull back (which is fine IF it starts giving paint right away).
 
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There's always things to check on to make sure that your brush is working right.
Needle chucks have to be tensioned correctlly, seals have to be checked, needle points an so on,
If, after you have done the "pre-start" checklist, things aren't going well; there's gotta be something else.
To answer your query, yes, it should start paint flow immediately you move the trigger back, and yes; your brush should be able to be tweaked to do so.
Could be something simple, like spring tension perhaps or backing off the pre-set [ I like to think of it as a back-stop] setting?
I am not at all familiar with your brush myself, but I'm 100% certain that someone here is.
Splasha
 
Here it shows an H&S:

https://sites.google.com/site/donsairbrushtips/harder-steenbeck-evolution-solo-review

I dont actually have the "solo", but it looks somewhat similar to this.

Some good points I took from this review:

"Harder & Steenbeck is kind of like the Apple Computer of airbrushes. They are not cheap, but they are good. "

"Trigger pull is just slightly rough. By slightly, I mean I can barely feel something. It may smooth out with use."

"I changed the trigger pull spring with one out of my ball point spring collection to give the softer action I prefer."

"The trigger pull feels smoother. My lighter spring may have contributed to that."
 
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Splasha - I'll check those thing when I finish work today, but it was like this right from the start, brand new
 
I had this problem with my Patriot when I first got it. I was used to my Talon which is real smooth. I ended up reducing the paint a little moe and the problem went bye bye. Not all guns are the same......
Cheers
 
Like jord001 said this is mainly down to practice and getting a feel for your airbrush. If the point at which the brush starts giving paint clearly varies though there is something wrong. Either the nozzle is a tad dirty or you should see how it works with a bit more reduced paint.

Also the H&S range (no clue about the krome) due to it's trigger mechanism will always react a tad late as there is some "elbow room" between pulling the trigger back and the point it connects and actualy starts pushing the needle back. When I'm using these guns I tend to look for the point it actualy gives paint and release the trigger just a tad so it stops and keep it there so from that point on it will react straight away (but this again takes some practice)
likewise "elbow room" with the badger brushes and most others to be honest.... ive used about 5 brushes so far and my micron is the only one that i know is gonna get the paint on as soon as i touch that trigger.... the others have an element of guesswork to them in my experience.... however, you can not beat practice and guidance.... therefore i think any kind of tuition, be it face to face, online via skype, or the new vids from mitch..... its all learning and totally worth it!
 
i can live with a little "elbow room", this is a thing to get used to as i understand it, but I wish the trigger was a little more smooth, like the guy writes in the article from my link earlier. I'll google changing springs as soon as i finish work:)

H&S "Quick fix" add-on would also solve it for me, but this might hinder my learning.
 
Update:

I put some water in the AB, spent a long time spraying into a bucket. This thought me better when it starts to give paint (water) and not.

I then did like a 100 or so very very guick big lines back and forth on a paper, almost completely saturating the paper with paint, not caring exactly where they started or stopped.

I then drew some horizontal lines on paper, using them as guides for text, where I wrote my name a 100 times - always keeping in mind to stop and start like a normal line, and using dagger stroke for the end of the "g" in Dag:)

THEN I tried some normal lines again, they were far better. When I were doing short, precise lines, I sometimes start the paint flow at the same moment that I start moving (instead of moving first, then hitting paint where the line should start). This makes me hit the point exactly, and I also don't see a "dot" or anything at the start. Is this wrong technique, and something I should avoid?

If this can be a tip for the rest of you newbies struggling with technique like me, then great:)
 
Yeah, the excersize in the video is more or less the same as I was trying to describe. I just don't use pre-printed sheets. Either way, same concept.

In theory, every airbrush should start spraying as soon as you move the trigger. In practice, the airbrush head design, the quality of materials, air pressure, paint reduction, and about a thousand other factors play a role.

Part of the issue I've found with the H&S airbrushes is that the 0.15 nozzle is just too small to handle most airbrush paints, which causes the responsivness of the airbrush to suffer. The 0.2 nozzle set up will give you just as fine of lines (for all practical purposes), and better response.
Turning your air pressure up a bit may help, too, just don't go overboard.

Sadly, airbrushes with quick, accurate, and consistent response also tend to have price tags that reflect that. Microns are your safest bet for that, but my Olympos HP100-B is excellent with that, too, so you don't NEED a micron. They do make the work easier, though. The Iwata HP-B is essentially a fraternal twin to the HP100-B, and parts are a lot easier to find in the US for Iwata airbrushes (long story short- when Iwata opened, they sought help from Olympos, who essentially let them use their HP100 and MP200 (a.k.a. Micron) designs. For quite a while, they were essentially identical, but both companies have made some changes. The basic design remains, though).

I wish I could say some more positive remarks on the H&S airbrushes, but, after several years, my Infinity has more "broken down" than "broken in". The unpredictable delay is always there. The trigger mechanism has gotten rougher over time. The needles and nozzles are soft and have to be replaced a lot. All of the pretty finishes are pretty much gone. Right now I have the 0.4 nozzle in it, and am using it as a stand-in for my HP-CS while I await a new nozzle.

The FedEx guy just might get a big hug when he shows up. lol.

I know some very established artists who swear by H&S, so there is always going to be another perspective. But, for me, I'd spend the money somewhere else.
 
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