For Every Airbrush Artist!

Ready to get involved? Register for free and you won't see any google advertising!

Register

Interesting discovery, 4030

Discussion in 'Airbrush Paints' started by Joe T, Apr 22, 2018.


  1. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    I'm more convinced than ever that createx simply has some consistency issues. With each bottle of paint and each bottle of additive I've used viscosity has been all over the place. I've had Some very thick white and some white that was thin enough to use in a .2 straight from the bottle.
    Additives seem especially prone but not reducers.
    I agree with @SiRoxx 0n the probably 4030
    The paint, 4004 and especially 4030
    all seem to have consistency issues.

    So heres the sciencey part.....LOL

    I doubt a bad batch of reducer, heres why;
    4012 and 4020 from the docs are identical except that 4020 has somewhere between 5-10% acetone added if i remember right.
    The 2 buotxyethanol ,aka monobutylether, aka glycol ether ,aka a whole bunch of other names is the other non- water ingredient for both.
    Acetone evaporates quickly then water then the butoxy evaporates slowest.
    So left open 4020 becomes 4012 pretty quick and then concentrated 4012 pretty slow.

    Somewhere along the line, either in shipping or at the plant some of the stuff is allowed to partly crosslink . I'm not really sure if its at the plant and when they bottle it the bad bottles are literally the bottom of the barrel or if its just storage and shipping after the fact.
    If youve ever tried to put down a new coat of enamel paint over enamel thats past an hour but before 24 and seen it wrinkle, the seeding is that same process but in suspension.
    Tocean, Joe T and jord001 like this.
  2. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    If you really want to use the 4020 on some 4030 acting like that you may have to just premix then strain it.
    It shouldn't re-seed after straining if you let it sit 10 minutes.
    This is guessing though, I have not had any 4030 that bad yet. Just one bottle of 4004 that bad.

    Cooling it Like @Leakyvalve said he did should work too, but then it it probably negates any of the advantage of 4020 over 4012 anyhow.
    Id be interested to hear if that method seeds up if its allowed to return to room temp in a closed bottle
    HellBird, Joe T and jord001 like this.
  3. Joe T

    Joe T Mac-Valve Maestro! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    712
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Location:
    MIchigan
    You guys are the best. I’ll try a new bottle of 4030 and see what happens. Not sure why all of a sudden I’m hung up on createx. I tried golden and loved it as well as com art. I can get more bang for the buck after thinning createx but starting to think it’s not worth it.
    HellBird and Robbyrockett2 like this.
  4. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    Best thing about createx is the versatility I think. Its kind of a make your own paint for your purpose system.
    I like urethane any time I can use them
    HellBird and Joe T like this.
  5. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,977
    Likes Received:
    3,461
    Trophy Points:
    126
    As far as Automotive style goes, Createx pretty much has it down in the waterborne world. They have the Pearls, Candies, Spraklecent and stuff, so because that’s the type of painting I want to do, I figure I need to get it down. But I’m sure it’s not the best for a lot of other applications. I have some CI Black that I want to use on my next piece I haven’t used any CI at all yet, so I’m interested to see how it is compared to Wicked. I know a lot of the big names use Illustration for detail and Wicked or AA for the bases.
    I also know Wicked generally comes with a warning for Airbrush beginners as it’s not the easiest to work with. But again, I figure if I can master that, the. I’m good with the other paints.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Tocean, HellBird, Joe T and 2 others like this.
  6. Joe T

    Joe T Mac-Valve Maestro! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    712
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Location:
    MIchigan
    I like your thinking..I also have th same goals
    SiRoxx and Robbyrockett2 like this.
  7. Leakyvalve

    Leakyvalve Needle-chuck Ninja

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    413
    Trophy Points:
    61
    OK discover #2. I just opened a new 4oz bottle of 4012 from my candy 2O kit to test. I mixed it with 4030 and it worked great.. nice mix like milk. I then put a few drops of the 4012 the I have in a dispenser bottle and has been on my bench for probably 6 months at least. It IMMEDIATELY curdled up. The source bottle, 32oz, also curdles the 4030. I mean, figure that out. It seems to me that some of these chemicals are doing things when they sit for long periods of time. Which I think is BS!!!!
    HellBird, Robbyrockett2 and Joe T like this.
  8. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    yeah , def a little wierd. what if you add like 10-20 percent water to the old 4012 before you put it in 4030?
    line of thinking being the water evaps faster than the butoxy and so maybe the 4012 has simply concentrated.
  9. Leakyvalve

    Leakyvalve Needle-chuck Ninja

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    413
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Did a quick test and no luck. It works just fine with my wicked paints, though, so no need to throw it out. I'm not a fan of 4012 so I'll just use it for general reducing like with autoborne sealer.
    Robbyrockett2 likes this.
  10. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    Mysterious, kind of wish i had some problematic product to play with :) and figure out
  11. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    Well heres a new one, apparently 2BE is biodegraded by microorganisms in water with the total being cut in half every 4 weeks. So unless your reducer is kept sterile I guess you'll get breakdown.
    HellBird and SiRoxx like this.
  12. Neural

    Neural Gravity Guru

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2017
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    41
    This is purely my opinion, but I believe they do have some consistency problems that need to be resolved. I have a bottle of the transparent base that is like sludge (brand new bottle I bought earlier this year). I mixed in a bit of red the other day to make a really light pink (just experimenting), and the transparent base took a lot of stirring to mix in properly. It had the chunky consistency of rotten milk.
    Among the color set that I purchased last fall, there are consistency problems among the different colors. Some are definitely thicker than others. Fortunately they still work fine. If stuff is too thick I just add a little more 4012. Just makes them less reliable when coming out of the bottle.
  13. Tocean

    Tocean Needle-chuck Ninja Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    410
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Lauderdale by the Sea FL USA
    This has been an interesting read, just picked up a bottle of 4030, going to use it with the wicked on a sculpture made out of sign foam when I can get to it, also picked up some candies to experiment around with.
  14. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    3,139
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    Different colors will always be different from each other.
  15. Leakyvalve

    Leakyvalve Needle-chuck Ninja

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    413
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Just a slight update.
    So I have both Candy2O kits and each comes with two, four ounce bottles of 4030. I also bought the additives kit (4 bottles total) that had a bottle as well. I used up that bottle initially and started to use the candy kit bottles. I usually will break a bigger bottle down to a dropper bottle for convenience and control.
    So the one bottle I opened to make a smaller bottle from the candy kits is now almost solid. So I checked the others. Here's the report. 2 bottles are solid--1 never even opened. 2 other bottles have enough viscosity for the ball to travel but one of those has a lot of delay in the motion.
    Also, the label is green, but it is an overlabel of the older black label. So who knows how old these are without knowing how Createx date codes their product.
    I think I may call the company tomorrow and see what they say.
    basepaint, HellBird, SiRoxx and 4 others like this.
  16. Joe T

    Joe T Mac-Valve Maestro! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    712
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Location:
    MIchigan
    I think now my only favorite created product is 4012. I’m focusing on Golden these days! I will say however I tried illustration in Payne’s grey and so far it’s ok with some transparent base. The golden Payne’s grey is just too blue for me
    SiRoxx and Robbyrockett2 like this.
  17. Jurien72

    Jurien72 Have Airbrush - Will Travel!

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,824
    Likes Received:
    2,775
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Somewhere in the U.S.
    Golden is an excellent company, and your support of their products keeps my nephew from being homeless :thumbsup:
    basepaint and Joe T like this.
  18. Leakyvalve

    Leakyvalve Needle-chuck Ninja

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Messages:
    461
    Likes Received:
    413
    Trophy Points:
    61
    I emailed them last week and they got back to me and shipped out replacement stuff. They only said it may have gotten frozen and that was about it. So ???.. but I'm happy they replaced what was bad.
  19. J000seph

    J000seph Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    1,837
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    73F42C77-1DE9-4127-8CCB-A9CEEC69F51D.jpeg

    http://creatextech.com/pdf/tds/4020-TDS.pdf

    Createx says, “Don’t do that.”

    Also, Paint that gets too hot or too cold goes bad. Maybe the mail man did it, maybe hobby lobby, maybe you?
    HellBird, Tocean, doc1 and 1 other person like this.
  20. J000seph

    J000seph Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    1,837
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Houston, TX

Share This Page