I'ts dead Jim

[Pony007]

So I bought a Pasche Talon years ago as a starter kit to airbrush models, PVC figures etc. About 3 years ago I started this PVC figure and I had two Talon brushes. All the paint layers were fine and then it came time for clear coat. So I asked the guy at my local hobby shop how to mix a clear coat, because I followed online tutorials and had no luck. He sold me an acrylic base from Tamaya semigloss and said thin it 50/ 50 with Tamaya thinner or denatured alcohol then you can thin it more if u like but start with 50/50. NO Isopropyl Alcohol he says, it'll swell all the seals and grommets, kill my brush etc.... No worries I'm only using denatured alcohol with the acrylic paints, was told this by a few other people.

Mix 50/50 spray sputter, thin thin, sputter, thin, sputter, just air bubbles in cup. So I take apart the airbrush and clean it and it looks good and clean soaked put it back together and bubbles in cup hiss hiss. Hmmm Go to the local Airbrush guy who is no longer around at an art store that no longer exists ( real bummer) he says, " Oh you soaked it and removed the packing needle bearing, or you soaked it and didn't do that? " NO I didn't know!!! So he informs me Pasche Talon has a garbage packing needle bearing, and if you soak the brush with it in it or scrub it with a cleaner brush you kill it, get bubbles in the cup. Looks like a clog he says, but it's the packing bearing, trust him he's been doing this forever. Ok so I order the metal /nylon packing bearing, carefully remove it , install the new one. HISS HISSS bubbles in cup. Okay I have another brush screw this, I thinned the clear like 20 clear / 80 denatured alcohol, no issues, then I got a job where I could't do anything but work, never finished that kit.

FF to today, break out the airbrush, the good one break out a Pinkie Pie Figure and start painting. Same thing, all the paint looks good, lets mix a clear coat, I umm forgot so I go back and turns out I forgot this guy gave me bad advice years ago, and 50/50 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!Brush #2 same thing, again I forgot about the packing bearing!!!!!! ordered a new one two of them, soaked the airbrush in denatured alcohol for over 12 hrs.

Bought an Iwata Eclipse CS and. I wont kill this brush! It's amazing! So Long story short I would like to finish clear coating Pinkie Pie. I'm using Tetsors semigloss base, and denatured alcohol. What is the ratio to mix so I don't kill a brush?

 

[AndreZA]

IF you ever have to soak a gun, packing seal removed, you only need to cover from the tip to just before the air valve. No other parts get in contact with paint so is not necessary to clean.

 

[DaveG]

1st, welcome to the forum - you've come to the right place .

2nd, you've never gotten good advice (yet). Here's a link to a video that helps explain bubbles in the cup -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1x0UwQQUZ8&t=490s

The needle packing on ANY brush is removed from the air circuit of the brush, and is physically incapable of causing bubbles in the cup. I have read many times where people say they cured the issue by adjusting the needle packing, when in fact they have corrected the issue by adjusting something else on the way to the needle packing .

The Paasche Talon comes standard with a teflon needle packing, and is pretty much impervious to alcohols of any kind. On the Talon, the most common cause of bubbles in the cup is a poor seal at the base of the nozzle where it screws into the brush. This can usually be cured with the application of bee's wax to the threads, or something easier to use, and get - Chapstick. The nozzles are a little on the brittle side, so care needs to be taken not to over tighten them! The other thing on this brush will be the Nozzle or air cap - they have to be far enough on to allow the nozzle to protrude from the front a hair - explained pretty well in the video link above.

The Iwata is a more robust brush, that will be less finicky than the Paasche. As far as thinning, you may try using a mix of water and alcohol. I am not real familiar with the Testor's, but the only paint I have used that was reluctant to work well with a water/alcohol mix was Tamiya - which I wound up just using acetone with. I don't care for their thinner much... I would be tempted to try a 25% thinner, 75% clear, and test spray on the side. Add more thinner and test until it looks like you are getting a good spray pattern, with decent atomization.

 

[Pony007]

Asked for some chapstick, tried that. everything worked then I got air bubbles inside the body, like soap bubbles comning out from the trigger area. So I removed the packing bearing, chapsticked the threads on that put it in, and made it a little more snug. No mored bubbles in the cup, none in the body we're good to go tyvm.

 

[Nessus]

I've used Testors "Aztek" airbrush acrylics, and they spray really really nicely when reduced with 90% isopropyl. Not sure about their non-airbrush paints though.

I've sprayed Testors Model Master, but it's been a while, so I don't remember how they responded to alcohol. I remember their sprayabilty being really inconsistent between colors though, with black in particular being tarry mess no matter how I reduced it. Proceed with caution.

Good call on the Eclipse. It's a definite step up from a Talon.

 

[DaveG]

Asked for some chapstick, tried that. everything worked then I got air bubbles inside the body, like soap bubbles comning out from the trigger area. So I removed the packing bearing, chapsticked the threads on that put it in, and made it a little more snug. No mored bubbles in the cup, none in the body we're good to go tyvm.

hehehehe, bubbles in body without pigment, or paint, is air coming up through the air valve (under the trigger). A little may be considered normal. Some brushes have an o-ring here, some don't. The Iwata does have an o-ring that the trigger push pin fits through, the Paasche does not... Less likely to have air coming up by the trigger on the Iwata.

Now, paint by the trigger, r inthe brush body - this is the job of the needle packing. If you have paint in the brush body, the packing does need to be adjusted. You want to get it snug against the needle, but not tight. You develop a feel for it over time. If you think about the screw like a clock face, you only want to adjust it a couple of "minutes" at a time - test fitting the needle to feel for some resistance. There should be no need for Chapstick in this area.

 

[jord001]

I have a talon and although I had issues with the #1 setup the #2 setup works great. What I did find was that the needle cap needed to be tightened just right or it didn't work properly. As for bubbles and issues with solvents, I didn't have those issues when using solvent paints or spraying 2 k clear through it.

Lee

 

[Pony007]

I have a talon and although I had issues with the #1 setup the #2 setup works great. What I did find was that the needle cap needed to be tightened just right or it didn't work properly. As for bubbles and issues with solvents, I didn't have those issues when using solvent paints or spraying 2 k clear through it.

Lee

The # 1 needle drove me nuts. I went back to the #2 myself.

 

[Ronald art]

I find the biggest problem with the Paasche Talon is the quality as in it is a real poor quality airbrush in my book I have one in a draw just to remind me never to buy a other one
Dont get me wrong the Talon worked just fine when it cam fresh out the case but it started to go south on me real fast and after about 2 hours tops it was that bad I switched back to my trusty Iwata HP SB+ I didnt even bother to clean it but the next day I felt like cleaning and checking the Talon for damage or blockage so I gave it a good clean and stripped it down to find a busted nozzle
I never dropped the talon and all I did was twisting the needle while cleaning it and without using any force
I have thought about getting a new nozzle and give it a second chance but I decided against it and I bought a Iwata revolution instead the revolution is not a detail brush but it could do better details as the Talon and it still works like a charm after 10 years of use with the same nozzle and needle but I admit I only use it when I need a 0.5 nozzle for fast and large coverage

 

[Pony007]

I find the biggest problem with the Paasche Talon is the quality as in it is a real poor quality airbrush in my book I have one in a draw just to remind me never to buy a other one
Dont get me wrong the Talon worked just fine when it cam fresh out the case but it started to go south on me real fast and after about 2 hours tops it was that bad I switched back to my trusty Iwata HP SB+ I didnt even bother to clean it but the next day I felt like cleaning and checking the Talon for damage or blockage so I gave it a good clean and stripped it down to find a busted nozzle
I never dropped the talon and all I did was twisting the needle while cleaning it and without using any force
I have thought about getting a new nozzle and give it a second chance but I decided against it and I bought a Iwata revolution instead the revolution is not a detail brush but it could do better details as the Talon and it still works like a charm after 10 years of use with the same nozzle and needle but I admit I only use it when I need a 0.5 nozzle for fast and large coverage

I'm really starting to see that myself now. I didn't get an Eclipse turns out I bought a Iwata HP-C but as I'm painting with it I notice the atomization is perfect. paint goes on smooth. I can control fine small lines vs wide patches. The Talon just seems to be good at throwing down a general base coat like a primer. When I try detail it lacks. After rebuilding it, it still just seems to lack in so many ways compared to this Iwata. I'll continue to use it, but I see a huge difference between the two!

 

[Nessus]

I tried to buy a Talon back in IIRC 2013 or 2014. Had to send it back twice, due to both of the ones I received having multiple manufacturing defects that never should have left the factory. Not subtle stuff that would only show up when you go to spray either: big stuff that was visible the moment you got it out of the box. One of them had an actual open gap in the weld between the cup an the body FFS. After having to send back the second one, plus a history of quality inconsistency I'd previously experienced buying parts for my old VL, I decided the Talon, and Paasche in general, weren't worth a further go.

All I could think was "Is this going to be a thing every time I have to order a part? Crossing my fingers I won't have to buy multiple times to get one that's actually usable?". This was non-trivial, as I'd had to replace VL needles several times over the years due to them being so soft the tips could get bent just by stuff like lightly grazing the side wall of the needle tube when removing for cleaning. Even removing the little protective green rubber drop on the tips of new needles was an exercise in white knuckle anxiety. Those things bent like they were machined out of solder wire.

I took the money I got refunded from the Talon, and took a gamble on a refurbished Eclipse with it instead. Had never used a non-Paasche airbrush up to that point (the VL had been my prior main brush), and WOW was the difference an eye opener. Wish I'd known years earlier.

 

[Leakyvalve]

IN case this gets read by anyone thinking of buying the Talon... DON'T. I even had the MOJO version of it.
I had purchased a good many Paasche brushes to try/test, and they were barely a step above the chinese stuff. Although, my VLST pro was a good brush, it just didn't fit in and off it went. I'm pretty much down the line Iwata stuff.