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Micron head variations

Discussion in 'General Airbrush Discussion' started by J000seph, Jun 10, 2018.


  1. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    A V1 Iwata? Yes, they were different... Also, on the Olympos, I would guess, again, a product of it's age... The trigger and air valve would be compatible with the Iwata versions that have the same construction.
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  2. erwin de pan

    erwin de pan Needle-chuck Ninja

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    When I put the air valve of the iwata in the olympos,
    I do not get air.
    The pin of the olympos valve is longer.
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  3. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Yes, There is also a difference in the diameter of the hole that passes through the brush body from the top into the air valve, at least for the push pin of the trigger unit. I just went and checked- I have three different Olympos air valves (at least - they are ones that are out right now). On all three constructions, the size of the actual air passage (if you unscrew the air valve, it is the hole in the front of the housing that allows air into the brush body) is the same size. One of the valve assemblies is the same as the build you have on the Olympos MP-C, 2 are like the Iwata style. The important part of comparing both builds is measuring the over all length of the parts from the point where they meet the air valve pin. The difference between the two is taken up by the separate push pin in the Iwata version. I have made a few trigger conversions by heating the Iwata style pictured, and removing the cross pin, then adding a push pin like the Olympos version, and pinning it in. The pin just needs to be a larger diameter to fit the O-ring seal in the brush body.
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  4. J000seph

    J000seph Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Thanks for the pictures. And thank you @DaveG for your description. This is the best confirmation of the difference between v1 and v2 heads I’ve seen. I tried searching for info about the difference on this forum without luck. People claimed it was the same part number, etc.
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  5. J000seph

    J000seph Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    @erwin de pan is your photo on a kneadable eraser? That’s a good idea to keep small parts from rolling away haha.
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  6. J000seph

    J000seph Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    The forgotten micron? Never seen that one.
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  7. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    IDK I thought it was some odd older brush but then i looked at the olympos site and they are selling it. I've been trying to find anyn sort of older like 50's 60's Jap brushes since I know olympos goes back that far, but either they didnt make any obvious design changes through the years or even pictures of them are rare IDK
  8. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Look through it sometime, theres all kinds of oddball stuff, like the cr45's with canted cups, or sp-b's which seem to be fixed head microns, or some where the air valve slants forward.
    Lots with what i think is some kind of awkward looking swivel joint for the air hose
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  9. J000seph

    J000seph Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Some people think SP-B is better than a micron because of the head design. There is a guy in the US that was selling Olympos for a while named Frank Artele. He was a member on here for a short time also. He has YouTube videos reviewing and comparing Olympos. He actually cut open an Sp-b (or sp-a actually I think) to show inside the head. The nozzle is surrounded by a tunnel of air instead of the 3 holes we’ve been talking about.
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  10. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I was not real thrilled with the SP-B and did not keep the one I had... It was OK, just didn't offer anything more than I felt like i was getting from other brushes. The three holes only deliver air to the base of the head unit, to "see" what the air passage looks like, you would also need to put the nozzle cap on... the SP-B uses the same nozzle cap as the Micron.

    I'll add one more bit to this conversation for consideration... about those three holes. Wold introduced the use of a 3 hole head base (remarkably similar to the Olympos base) in the 1920's. Thayer Chandler started using the same three hole design by the 1930's, later carried into the Badger line in the 1960's... Hoblein used the design on the "Y" series of brushes through the 60's to mid 80's (maybe?). Is it really a superior air delivery system that automatically makes a brush better than something else? If three is good, would not the heavily used European design(s) that divert air into four separate channels be better? What about the very interesting nozzle configuration on the Aerographs? The internal structure of the brush has the nozzle butting up against a post surround by the air flow before being channeled up four sides of the nozzle.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  11. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Nozzle cap does the same thing, I'm pretty sure thats basically the key to micronness. Aside from tight needle nozzle tolerance.
    TBH I've not been impressed with what I've seen of frank so far

    edit I meant tight nozzle/cap tolerance
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  12. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    that is my take as well - air delivery into the head is almost irrelevant, and the business happens where air and paint meet up front.
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  13. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    That sleeve down over the post that leaves a nice tight barrel of a path for the air to swirl down and be directed to the nozzle/ cap interface evenly.
    It's the only major difference between my 270's head and a micron head
  14. J000seph

    J000seph Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    So, in theory, the single hole micron head design should perform as good as the three hole heads?
  15. Jurien72

    Jurien72 Have Airbrush - Will Travel!

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    I wonder though how much "air turbulence" might affect things though. Carburetor tuners love to argue about things like that...
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  16. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    Unless the three holes were tiny, But being they are each about the same size as the single airchannel that delivers air through the brush I just don't see how they could possibly help distribute air, I think its how the aircap is a tight sleeve over the post.

    Otherwise the three hole head with very tight tolerances in every other area on my 270 would mean it should have micron performance as well.
    The only significant difference is that the air cap doesnt form a long narrow chamber over the nozzle post.
    I think if you could make that gap tighter or extend its length you might see a slight bump in performance, but in reality its probably as optimized as it can possibly get.

    I mean eventually you just reach the limits of how sharp a venturi based system can focus and still atomize.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  17. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I had this conversation just the other day - the Thayer Chandler Model A uses a three hole head. It also has a unique feature of having an adjustable nozzle cap, or "regulator" as they call it. I have worked pretty extensively with fooling around with these brushes. Plugging holes in the base of the head does very little to influence the spray pattern in any way. But, adjusting that regulator cap? You can fine tune the brush to work with any paint you have in the cup by altering the relationship between the exit orifice in the nozzle cap, and the nozzle tip. I swear, every brush should have this feature!

    My guess is that if you gave a single hole brush, and a three hole brush to six different people, you would wind up with 6 different opinions about which one works "best" ;). In much of the testing I do, I look to remove my own personal preferences from the equation, even human input to the event at hand :)... There are hundreds of airbrushes out there. The BEST one, is the one any given individual is comfortable using.
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  18. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    In theory if i modifed one of my pz360 heads so the aircap could screw down further could I sort of imitate that adjusting feature?

    edit probably not since the nozzle isnt a straight taper
  19. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    in theory, yes ;). I will gather photo's over the next day or so, but the nozzle shapes come into play, as well as the thread pitch of the nozzle cap - very, very fine stuff - so that each turn is a small adjustment.
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  20. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

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    The richpen phoenix brushes seem to have been made around the sp-b heads and hp bodies.

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