Micron vs. Infinity

[Nada]

It is an awesome brush, I just really didn't use it much. The cup was a bit too clit.se to the trigger for my technique. I generally put the trigger under the knuckle of my index finger for more control when doing detail work.

The HP-200SB is nice, but I would not put it at Micron level. Actually, the more I use the Eclipse SBS, the more I like it. I will eventually get a CM-SB2, but I really don't "need" one. I do most of my paintings with a workhorse and the last 10% or so of the detail with a Micron or Evo/Infinity.

Yes I found I cannot use the lid on the brush and had to alter my finger technique a little. But I adjusted pretty quickly to It. I do the same with the side of my knuckle which just barely allows my finger clearence. The cup is obviously oversized and very little risk of spilling paint for me. I am doing much the same only reching for the micron to drop in eyelashes or some such.

 

[jagardn]

@Vladimir: thanks!



So what is the air pressure you are useing the Evo at the lowest? Without negative impacts and for really fine detail? 1-3mm away from the surface?

Is it the Micron you don't use that low as 5psi, or are you saying you really use the Evo at that low pressure? If so I would be very interested to know how that should work!

I did a test tonight with the Evo. I can spray Createx Illustration reduced 25:1 down to 5 psi, though the lines were more consistent at around 10 psi. Regardless, 10 psi is low enough to avoid spidering on about any surface.

 

[JackEb]

For the newbies who are not aware, the "25:1" mentioned above is Reduceraint

 

[pcDoc]

Fully motivated to go to the shop today (if time allowes) I called them to make sure the CM-SB is really the new version 2 and not some old stuff sitting on the shelf. The answer was: Iwata,... Well I can order them but they didn´t really sell well, so we don´t have a single one on stock. But he has all the other brands on stock. I guess the market share Iwata has over here is less than in the US or Australia and maybe even UK.

In fairness to the shop, it is more graphity supply, but they also sell everything for classic oil painting as well as Airbrush and everything that comes with it...

Lucky me, that I called them to check before spending an hour in the car for nothing... But that reduces my possibilities dramatically to get my hands on one of them. Price is good, and if I order today I might have it on Monday already, but that doesn´t help me in terms of getting a feel on it... I need to check for other shops, but there aren´t that many around unfortunately... So I might end up buying it without even seeing it first, which is something I absolutely not like...

@jagardn: Thanks for trying that! I will give it another try today with the EVO. I normally don´t reduce more than 1:20 when using already transparant colors, but I will give it a try as well with that higher reduction, though I doubt this is an option (at least for me) because I would need too many passes to get the saturation I need in many cases, which increases the risk of getting more area covered with every pass necessary. But I will definitely give it a try today evening and will share the results! Let´s see how far I can push it!

 

[AndreZA]

@pcDoc, now thing about us here on the tip of Africa. 90% of the stuff you buy is on good faith. And if you don't like it, you can not take it back.

 

[pcDoc]

@AndreZA, I guess this is how you are used to things, but we are pretty spoiled here and you can go to a shop close by and get almost anything. I could normally live with it, if it is a gun for 100€, but in this case we talk about a gun for 400€, so this is not something which I would like to buy without having it seen first. But because you said you cannot return it, we have a quite moderate return policy if it is shipped to me! I cannot use it, but I can unwrap it and send it back within 14 days if I don´t like it! I just have to pay the shipping costs, that´s all! So that would be an option!

I´ll give the Evo another try on very low pressure today evening. It that works for me no need for the Iwata. If it doesn´t I probably order one.

 

[AndreZA]

If it is a stock item off the shelf and you buy it and don't want it, you can return it if unopened. Special order items is your baby. They will exchange or repair if faulty but that is it. One day when I'm big I want to live in a country where life is easy. #daydream

 

[jagardn]

Fully motivated to go to the shop today (if time allowes) I called them to make sure the CM-SB is really the new version 2 and not some old stuff sitting on the shelf. The answer was: Iwata,... Well I can order them but they didn´t really sell well, so we don´t have a single one on stock. But he has all the other brands on stock. I guess the market share Iwata has over here is less than in the US or Australia and maybe even UK.

In fairness to the shop, it is more graphity supply, but they also sell everything for classic oil painting as well as Airbrush and everything that comes with it...

Lucky me, that I called them to check before spending an hour in the car for nothing... But that reduces my possibilities dramatically to get my hands on one of them. Price is good, and if I order today I might have it on Monday already, but that doesn´t help me in terms of getting a feel on it... I need to check for other shops, but there aren´t that many around unfortunately... So I might end up buying it without even seeing it first, which is something I absolutely not like...

@jagardn: Thanks for trying that! I will give it another try today with the EVO. I normally don´t reduce more than 1:20 when using already transparant colors, but I will give it a try as well with that higher reduction, though I doubt this is an option (at least for me) because I would need too many passes to get the saturation I need in many cases, which increases the risk of getting more area covered with every pass necessary. But I will definitely give it a try today evening and will share the results! Let´s see how far I can push it!

If your nozzle is clean, you can definitely get some real fine detail out of the Evo with less reduction, even at somewhat low pressures. I've recommended the H&S Nozzle Cleaning Tool in multiple threads on the forum. I swear by the thing. It makes the H&S brushes the easiest to maintain in my opinion.

 

[pcDoc]

@jagardn: My nozzle is normally pretty clean.

I just gave it a try and found the following to be true:

- @AndreZA mentioned the sweet spot of the CM is not 1mm, but more about 2-3mm away from the surface. I tried that with the Evo, and it seems I always was too close. The line doesn´t really get noticalbe thicker, but every bit of distance helps reducing spidering!
- you can go down to 10psi, anything lower is as you said getting noticable worse.
- I used Schmincke natural gray and going for a reduction of 1:25 does not work anymore (at least for me). The paint is soooooo transparant, that you don´t even see it on white paper! You only see it too late when it starts spidering.
- On soaking paper: A reduction of 1:10 to 1:15 works ok, even at 10psi it is more or less ok if you just move very slowly and have a brite surface you are painting on. So for details you slowly build up and are in form of an area that works. For anything like a really thing line with multiple passes and a lenght of more than 1cm I give up, but that could well be my missing skills.
- On non soaking surfaces: I couldn´t find a setup that works here. 2 Scenarios: Either too much air pressure or too wett. In both cases I´m not getting the results I would like to have. But overall on non soaking surface I got better results when not reducing too much, and keep the pressure at about 12-14psi. Looks better and less spidering.
- with the best setup I had in the last 30 minutes, I could avoid spidering, getting somehow the color intensity I´m expecting, but only if I move really slow. Moving slower > spidering, Moving quicker > dotted line


Now, having said that, this is complaining on a high level!! Maybe I´m simply expecting too much, as I don´t have any comparisson to other guns...

Even if I´m still not 100% happy, I again learnd something, which hopefully inproves my ABing! Thanks for that!

 

[jagardn]

@jagardn: My nozzle is normally pretty clean.

I just gave it a try and found the following to be true:

- @AndreZA mentioned the sweet spot of the CM is not 1mm, but more about 2-3mm away from the surface. I tried that with the Evo, and it seems I always was too close. The line doesn´t really get noticalbe thicker, but every bit of distance helps reducing spidering!
- you can go down to 10psi, anything lower is as you said getting noticable worse.
- I used Schmincke natural gray and going for a reduction of 1:25 does not work anymore (at least for me). The paint is soooooo transparant, that you don´t even see it on white paper! You only see it too late when it starts spidering.
- On soaking paper: A reduction of 1:10 to 1:15 works ok, even at 10psi it is more or less ok if you just move very slowly and have a brite surface you are painting on. So for details you slowly build up and are in form of an area that works. For anything like a really thing line with multiple passes and a lenght of more than 1cm I give up, but that could well be my missing skills.
- On non soaking surfaces: I couldn´t find a setup that works here. 2 Scenarios: Either too much air pressure or too wett. In both cases I´m not getting the results I would like to have. But overall on non soaking surface I got better results when not reducing too much, and keep the pressure at about 12-14psi. Looks better and less spidering.
- with the best setup I had in the last 30 minutes, I could avoid spidering, getting somehow the color intensity I´m expecting, but only if I move really slow. Moving slower > spidering, Moving quicker > dotted line


Now, having said that, this is complaining on a high level!! Maybe I´m simply expecting too much, as I don´t have any comparisson to other guns...

Even if I´m still not 100% happy, I again learnd something, which hopefully inproves my ABing! Thanks for that!

Never used Schmincke before. CI is heavily pigmented and can be way over-reduced, though 25:1 is pretty thin regardless.
What are you reducing with? That makes a huge difference in control of spidering.

 

[AndreZA]

If I could no longer get E'tac I would switch to Schmincke. It is pretty thin already and I don't think you should thin past 10:1.

 

[pcDoc]

I tried water and window cleaner, both very similar results.

 

[jagardn]

I tried water and window cleaner, both very similar results.

As a home brew, I use a 50/50 mix of denatured alcohol and distilled water. It evaporates quickly and minimizes spidering.

 

[pcDoc]

I never tried alcohol, but I could give it a try, I think I got some still have around.

And we are evil creatures that force people to buy Microns so that's not stange you're convinced

What should I say... The evil creatures succeeded...

I'm sure some of you know that feeling, giving you sleepless nights, when your brain says "you don't really need it", but your heart says "I want it". I was sick of having sleepless nights!

Worst case I have to sell it again, but I'm positive to keep it!

I will of course let you know my opinion on the CM and especially how it compares to the Evo in my opinion.

Thanks for your help so far! I might need more when having the CM!

 

[jagardn]

I'm sure some of you know that feeling, giving you sleepless nights, when your brain says "you don't really need it", but your heart says "I want it". I was sick of having sleepless nights!

I have no idea what you mean...I only have about a dozen airbrushes.

 

[Nada]

I never tried alcohol, but I could give it a try, I think I got some still have around.



What should I say... The evil creatures succeeded...

I'm sure some of you know that feeling, giving you sleepless nights, when your brain says "you don't really need it", but your heart says "I want it". I was sick of having sleepless nights!

Worst case I have to sell it again, but I'm positive to keep it!

I will of course let you know my opinion on the CM and especially how it compares to the Evo in my opinion.

Thanks for your help so far! I might need more when having the CM!

I have the Olympos Micron which was a beautiful gift conspired between my wife @AcrylicAlli

I have no idea what you mean...I only have about a dozen airbrushes.

Well since i have known you, you have sold me one, given me one, and you are in the process of selling another. That can only mean you are about to binge buy a few more.

 

[Vladimir]

What should I say... The evil creatures succeeded...

I'm sure some of you know that feeling, giving you sleepless nights, when your brain says "you don't really need it", but your heart says "I want it". I was sick of having sleepless nights!

I will of course let you know my opinion on the CM and especially how it compares to the Evo in my opinion.

When you'll have it your brain will be also satisfied as your heart

I have no idea what you mean...I only have about a dozen airbrushes.

It's just because your sleepless nights passed away long ago and you don't remember them

 

[jagardn]

I have the Olympos Micron which was a beautiful gift conspired between my wife @AcrylicAlli

Well since i have known you, you have sold me one, given me one, and you are in the process of selling another. That can only mean you are about to binge buy a few more.

I've owned most if not all of the high end brushes. I've chosen my favorites. Besides maybe a getting a CM-SB at some point, but I'm pretty much done with buying brushes.

 

[AndreZA]

There are two kinds of airbrushers; the ones that owns a Micron and those that can not wait to own a Micron.

 

[Vladimir]

There are two kinds of airbrushers; the ones that owns a Micron and those that can not wait to own a Micron.

Andre it's holy truth! But I can continue your expression! ... and also there are those who want to try tuned micron, so there are three types of airbrushers