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Model A interesting drawing

Discussion in 'Open Bar!' started by Robbyrockett2, Dec 22, 2018.


  1. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Found this in a book from 1920.
    I'd never seen a Thayer and Chandler model a with this setup.
    Appears as of 1920 to have been an adjustable single action....?

    Seemed like something to look out for when hunting @DaveG .
    Screenshot_20181221-225958.png
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  2. Leakyvalve

    Leakyvalve Mac-Valve Maestro!

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    It would be pretty interesting to talk to the engineers/designers who were knee deep in the airbrush world in the 20's.
    I wonder how their design thinking would match up to any modern fluid dynamic stuff.

    I assume they are all dead.. Died in total obscurity.
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  3. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Idk about that, off the top of my head, Charles burdick, O.C. Wold, Jens paasche.....

    By comparison , the head designs on Wolds and TC model A's is unbelievably similar to microns.
    I kind of doubt any design has been subject to modern fluid dynamic simulations by anyone who actually knows what they're doing (Though I'm attempting to do that)

    I do wonder how much of the original designs were calculated and how much was trial and error....
  4. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    I haven't been able to find any other source referencing a model a with this setup.
    Couple of teens models with a wheel behind the double action trigger , but nothing like this.
  5. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon!

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    I doubt they new then about fluid dynamic simulations. Those were more trial and error.

    How ridiculously peoples' thoughts might be!:) I also though that and looked inside that book. Good thing is to hold the ABs in the hands besides looking at the book's pictures;)

    I always say that not many things have been changed since Mr. Wold.

    The only thing that's different between us, I'm not making my airbrush. Yet;)

    Have just done better scan of the pics.

    abs.jpg
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  6. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I have yet to encounter a Model A with that set up - my oldest is from the mid to late 30's. I am always on the look out for earlier ones... If you look through patents, it may help explain why many early brushes were so similar. I know Wold filed many patents on behalf of Thayer and Chandler, before striking out on his own. As far as development, I am quite certain in those days many small inventions were born from trial and error, rather than drafted from calculations done on a drawing board.

    I will say that adjusting screw on the Thayer puts me in mind of the design Burdick eventually put into production on the Aerograph's as the cam ring - he too originally worked in Chicago before heading to England.
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  7. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    You would have to go a little further back, just before the turn of that Century (late 1800's)- the participants and developers of the first airbrushes are actually fairly well known. Many of the original players worked together, or in close proximity for maybe the first 30 years. There was a fairly nice looking sample of the first commercial airbrush just up for auction on Ebay last week - a Liberty Walkup. Priced out of my range, but a very interesting piece.
  8. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Just looking around a bit I would say the one in this book is very, very rare.

    Looking for examples the only early t+c I find either have the screw in front or for pre 1920 have the wheel behind the trigger.

    I Haven't found so much as a picture of a brush with that setup.
  9. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    Yeah, I have been thinking about it, and will suggest that it may be an artists concept, as it is an illustration.... The earliest Model A's that I know of did not have a removable head base - that was something that was added, maybe in the late 20's, early 30's. The rest of the brush design was pretty well established by then. The single action brushes also had a different letter designation.

    Here are two of my earliest samples of each of the brushes originally pictured - The Thayer Chandler here is late 30's. The earlier version of this brush would have had no removable head base, but still incorporated the adjustable regulator cap. Before that, the handle would have had a flat back, but the body looked the same. I believe going back a little further (late teens, early 20's maybe), the trigger would be different (a bent metal, curved top), and there would be no screw in front of it.

    DSC_4819.jpg
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  10. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Well of course no simulations then, I doubt ever. Since even most modern designs pre-date computers capable of even basic simulations.
    But how much do we think the Japanese dissected it and made slide rule calculations before settling on their designs in the 1950's?

    Very basic fluid and aerodynamics would have been cutting edge around the 1920s..... Extremely hard to say how much was known....it would have been changing by the day. Just by looking at the first aircraft from say, 1903 .....to in 1925 having already been trans Atlantic flights, in flight movies on commercial aircraft, etc.
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  11. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    found a little tidbit in a search that would indicate that the illustration is actually a 1930's Thayer Chandler model "G"
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  12. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    From what I've seen the removable head came and went and came again.

    Looks like teens to early 1920s have it,along with the curved square trigger and the adjusting wheel behind it, then sometime in the 20's it's a fixed head then sometime in the 30s it goes back to removable.
  13. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    I have yet to see a model g, do you have a link?
    I wonder where they got the illustration from in a book published in 1920....?
    They call the 1917 wold the "new model" wold in the same page.
  14. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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  15. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    https://sites.google.com/site/vintageantiqueairbrushcatalogs/thayer-chandler-1930

    On the Wold - what I have seen is that the basic design, the body, air valve, trigger, etc has been the same on the A1 from the very beginning of it's production. Differences have come to the head design (pre WW2 they used to include two head cones), and to the handle. The illustration shows a different regulator, or nozzle cap on it, as compared to the original head design. Flat back handle, too. The rear of the handle eventually received a metal cap at the back, that was removable to expose the stored, optional head cone.) Wold was the first to introduce a removable needle cap that would expose the needle, and allow for very close up work, just like today's Iwata's.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
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  16. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

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    I have looked at that link you provided for the Model A with rectangular trigger, etc... I am going to suggest that the body on that brush is actually from a later date. Perhaps early 30's... I have seen the instruction sheets like the one pictured inside the lid of the case. You can see the illustration shows a one piece body. When they went to a removable head base, they were very proud of the new design, and sent accompanying documentation with each brush to point it out. When they were in transition, and both styles were available, they illustrated that as well - making the other available as an "upgrade". I just picked one up that has a card explaining the "brand new, lightweight metal handle" as a replacement for the original resin ones.
  17. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    I kinda thought that too because of the illustration, but then the adjustment wheel wouldn't have been on the later body......so that was kinda confusing
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  18. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    On a side note man was airbrushing expensive then;
    Equivalent of $350 for a model A.
    $1400-2000 for an electric compressor
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  19. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

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    Yeah I'd say that's definitely it. I guess it must have been out for a decade or so before 1930.
  20. Vladimir

    Vladimir Detail Decepticon!

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    I have no idea what calculations they did, if ever, as you say.
    It's obvious that after Olympos no new things appeared. As far as I understand, among Japanese only Olympos worked seriously on new models designing. I don't know if they had a goal to make wide range of ABs or searching for the best models, but it's definitely obvious that the ABs can be improved and quantity of models can be narrowed. Basically, to a few models in siphon/gravity types with the sets of the nozzle sizes. But, that's business, my guess is that will never happen. No need for such a quantity of the models that being manufactured now, not talking about Olympos range of models. I think we'll never again see such a range of the ABs as Olympos had.

    The T&C model you're interested in I also have not seen ever. I think this was manufactured in a small lot that's why no sales was seen on e-bay etc. And it was more likely fail in the T&C trials. I think that regulator was much less precise and convenient compared to those that are built in the back handles (modern models).
    What's your interest in this particular model?

    My opinion is any regulator in the AB is useless for the detail work. They may be some kind of useful in the models used for using the AB like small paint gun for base coat/clear coat application.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018

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