Need advice on Badger or Iwata ?

[Cliffisen]

Hi all, great forum for tips and hint!

Im in the process of transitioning to airbrushing and im basically looking into 2 different kind of ABs.
The ABs im interested in are Badger Renegade Velocity and Iwata Eclipse CS.
I have had a look around the forum and i see ppl talking about one AB or the other, but not quite comparing them side by side (so to speak).

Anyone have experience with both and can give me the pros and cons of them both ?

 

[ko.]

CS It is a workhorse, takes punishment well, not finicky and super easy to clean..Badger fans please do not beat me up to badley LOL
Welcome to the forum Kurt

 

[Tigertron]

I don't have an renegade but I do have a soltar. Badger needles and nozzle are more delicate. The iwata is tough. It has a stainless needle and the nozzle will take more accidental abuse. You going to do stupid things at first. The iwata will bounce back better.

But parts are cheaper in the badger. It could be a toss up but I like iwatas craftsmanship better.

 

[Mr.Micron]

I have the Krome and the cs among others. Like TigerTron state the CS is a workhorse , But you will not go wrong with either.

 

[MeeshellMP]

KROME KROME KROME KROME!! too much ? Lol I LOVE mine!

 

[jagardn]

Both are great brushes, but the Krome is cheaper, has two needle/nozzle sets, and sprays better at low pressure.

 

[Cliffisen]

Hmm... Is the Krome the same as velocity? Or are ppl recommending the Krome over Velocity?

Pricewise, I have a better deal with the Renegade the any of the others.

Sounds like I should get the Iwata (as a first AB), but I'm concerned that the Iwata will not do the fine detail I sometimes want.
I'm primarily going to do water based colors. Someone said the Iwata had a stainless steel needle, does that mean Badgers are less suited for water based colors?

Sent from my RM-821_eu_sweden_235 using Tapatalk

 

[Mr.Micron]

Hmm... Is the Krome the same as velocity? Or are ppl recommending the Krome over Velocity?

Pricewise, I have a better deal with the Renegade the any of the others.

Sounds like I should get the Iwata (as a first AB), but I'm concerned that the Iwata will not do the fine detail I sometimes want.
I'm primarily going to do water based colors. Someone said the Iwata had a stainless steel needle, does that mean Badgers are less suited for water based colors?

Sent from my RM-821_eu_sweden_235 using Tapatalk

Both shoot waterbased great.
Buying a Krome give you 2 airbrushes in one . It comes with a .2 needle /nozzle set up and a .3 set up. So when you need super fine detail you just need to install the .2 set up.
I have compared spray-ability between the Krome (100.00) and the Micron CM-C+ (Iwata 507.00) I get the same detail out of the Krome as I do the Micron.
Krome come with a needle stop (Pre-set adjuster) CS does not.
Mainly the Krome is a super version of the Renegade.
Parts for the Krome/Renegade are affordable needle 11.00 / nozzle 7.50 =18.50 vs the CS Needle 9.50/ nozzle 18.95 = 28.45
When I am looking at a new airbrush I consider everything to include replacement parts.
So for the price of just the nozzle of the cs I can buy both needle and nozzle for the Krome/Renegade.
Just some food for thought.
I also spray urethane through all my airbrushes as well. both have the teflon needle bearing so you can switch paint types if you want to.

 

[Squishy]

Sounds like I should get the Iwata (as a first AB), but I'm concerned that the Iwata will not do the fine detail I sometimes want.

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The Iwata is an amazing all round brush, strong needle, easy to take apart, no fiddly trigger mechanism. I use Wicked paints which are water based, and you can pull some incredibly fine lines with it. It's great to learn on, but you won't grow out of it, because the better you get, the more you will be able to do with it. I can't say enough good things about it. I can't comment on the Krome as I have never used it, but have heard really good things from some very experienced and talented members. Have noticed a few people with build quality issues that have affected performance out of the box, though badger are known for good customer service, so I'm sure any issues were quickly resolved.

 

[Cliffisen]

It's great to learn on, but you won't grow out of it, because the better you get, the more you will be able to do with it.

well, that does it for me. I'll start looking for the best deal for a Iwata HP CS right away.
Ty so much for all the response, advise and putting up with my many questions

 

[Squishy]

Not that I'm trying to put you off Lol, but just want to make it clear that it's my personal opinion, I'm sure others feel the same way about the Krome. And I do lust after the Iwata Micron which is supposed to allow super super fine detail. Having said that, I will never stop using my cs, and honestly feel it is an incredible brush, and compared to the micron outstanding value for money.

 

[Tigertron]

My first gravity feed was a iwata CS. After I got it I thought I needed a finer nozzle and bought the soltar. Several airbrushes later, including micron, I realize the brush is only half of it. I can now make very detailed lines with the CS. It's mostly trigger control not nozzle size. Just keep that in mind.

If you stick with airbrushing you will most likely get a few. The CS is a keeper and good for detail and large areas.

 

[Melbee]

I can't give you a direct comparison with the Renegade Velocity and Iwata Eclipse because I don't have a Velocity.

I do however have an Iwata HP-SBS Eclipse 0.3mm which is a side feed version of the HP-CS and I have to say it is my absolute favourite airbrush and yes you can get very good detail if you remove the needle cap or use a crown cap like I do.

OK, I will reach for my HP-SB+ 0.2mm or Sotar (Renegade) 0.2mm for really fine detail but to start with these airbrushes would be a mistake. Trying to get the paint to flow will frustrate you and getting fine detail will be the least of your troubles.

The reliability of the HP-CS will give you confidence, the 0.3mm needle setup will be more forgiving with paint, you will get less clogs, you will be able to spray larger areas down to pencil lines with the same airbrush, the engineering quality will give less technical problems so long as you clean your airbrush every time you paint and take good care of it. The less problems you have with the airbrush and spraying paint, the more confidence you will gain from actual painting, the more confidence you gain, the better your trigger control, the better trigger control, the more detail you will achieve.

Need I say more. Once you have these skills with this airbrush you can then think about getting a fine detail airbrush or if you even need one

This is just my opinion of my Eclipse airbrush. The Badger Renegade Krome was designed to improve on all the other Renegades and gets very good reviews but you didn't ask about the Krome and I've never used one so I can't comment but it does come with both 0.2mm and 0.3mm needles. With the Iwata's you have to buy a whole new airbrush if you want a different needle size.
Cheers Mel

 

[HCP-draggin]

Good call on getting the HP-CS. Replacement parts for Iwata's may cost a bit more, but they very rarely need replacing. The nozzles are a "super alloy" (their words, not mine) and very, very rarely need replacing. The needles are made of a stronger steel than other airbrush companies, and don't bend nearly as easily. The rest of the components really shouldn't need replacing at all. So, yeah, the Badger is cheaper, and the parts are cheaper, BUT, there's a good reason for that. Their quality control and product consistancy has some issues, leading to defective airbrushes straight from the box. They use cheaper, softer materials all around, but especially with their needles and nozzles, which means they need to be replaced more often, which off sets any "savings" you get from the cheaper parts.

As far as detail with the HP-CS, I'm consistantly suprised by the level of detail the CS is capable of. How a brush with a .35 tip can get as fine of detail as it does is beyond me. It takes practice and control, of course, but thats true of any airbrush. Lots and lots of practice....

When my uncle decided to buy an airbrush to paint scale models with, he asked me for advice on what he should buy. The guy at the hobby store was pushing him on a Paasche VL. I told him to get an HP-CS. He bought the VL anyway. After a couple weeks, he called me up, complaining that he couldn't get the hang of it. I went over, and bought my HP-CS along for him to try. About an hour later, he was calling the hobby shop to see if he could return the VL, and was ordering an HP-CS. Sometimes expirience is the best teacher, but sometimes you get to "cheat" by using the expirience of others. Much more efficient, more often than not.

 

[ko.]

Good choice I have sold off more than a couple of brushes I have 2 microns but still keep my gravity and siphon eclipses handy I was lucky. My next door neighbor gave me my first brush the HP-CS