New gear help.

H

Hudson1984

Guest
hi all well I want to get a half decent brush and some paints so I can get started properly, I had a bash with the cheap stuff I had and it just coughs and splutters even when it's down to near enough neat white spirits!! Was only a cheap Chinese things. Plus side is the compressor is fine.

So wanted some suggestions on a good entry level brush and some paints? I was thinking created illustrator and an Iwata neo. I don't mind spending more, would rather get the right gear now and grow into it so to speak.

Any tips would be really welcome I've been looking forward to doing my dots all week so I'm a bit annoyed that the day has been lost. :(
 
With regard to paint, your best bet is to buy the paint you will be using for the things you have in mind.
What is it you want to do? Tee shirts? Automotive art, illustrations?
You mentioned using white spirits? what are you trying to put through your brush at the moment?
As for which brush .... thats a whole ball game by it's self!
Ideally you want a duel action brush.
There are basically two choices of feed - Siphon and gravity feed.
Siphon feed brushes allow you to quick change your paint as each paint is in a bottle which fits on the bottom of the brush. The draw back with this is it can be wasteful if you only want to paint a very small amount. (there has to be enough in the bottle for the tube to suck up) also you need a slightly higher pressure to do that.
Gravity feed has the paint in a cup which is on the side (side feed) or the top (top feed) the advantage with this is you can just put in 1 drop if you want too and you can work at lower pressures for very fine work, the disadvantage is the cups are quite small so you cant do a big area in a oner and every time you want to change your paint you need to empty the cup and give the brush a good squirt though.
For a beginner, my personal recommendation would be to get the Iwata Eclipse HP-BCS 0.5 which is the brush I started with but others may suggest something else.
I don't think at the entry level It's worth buying a "Rolls Royce" Brush, I would suggest starting with a tried and tested work horse.
 
Hey oddball great advice thanks. I'm aiming to do automotive stuff but I've got a long way to go before doing that so want to hone my skills doing arty stuff really.

I'll take a look at the hp-bus your description is just what I'm after really, a good brush but not the best. Can always upgrade as skills progress but at the mo I just want to get on with it lol

I'm using Vallejo model air at the moment which has always been fine for spraying models but then I've never put it to paper so splutters etc never caused me an issue as I just wanted coverage - now I want control. They are water based but I'd run out of cleaner so just used white spirit.
 
Hey oddball great advice thanks. I'm aiming to do automotive stuff but I've got a long way to go before doing that so want to hone my skills doing arty stuff really.

I'll take a look at the hp-bus your description is just what I'm after really, a good brush but not the best. Can always upgrade as skills progress but at the mo I just want to get on with it lol

I'm using Vallejo model air at the moment which has always been fine for spraying models but then I've never put it to paper so splutters etc never caused me an issue as I just wanted coverage - now I want control. They are water based but I'd run out of cleaner so just used white spirit.

you shouldn't use white spirit to clean water based paints, oil and water don't mix unless you use ans emulsifying agent such dish-washing soap or green soap both of which would gum up your brush, I shouldn't be surprised if this is the reason for your spluttering, you most likely have gunge in your brush/nozzle as a result, I sometimes use cellulose thinners or acetone but only to remove dried up paint quickly, if you use water based paints stick with water based cleaner.

For your cheap airbrush it makes little difference now since they frequently give it up even if with proper cleaning and maintenance, but if you do get yourself a good brush please use the recommended cleaners for it, and if you are unsure of anything please do ask here first, your brush will last you a long long time when treated right.
 
Bum bum bum!! Yes there was gum which is what I've been trying to pick out. Lesson learned!! Glad it was learned on a cheaply brush.

Any recommendations on cleaners last time I used Medea stuff but if there's a better option I'm all ears.

Just making an eBay list at the mo for a new brush, paints and some cleaner.
 
The Harder and Steenbeck airbrushes are nice... I have the evolution 2 in 1 kit £130 from graphics direct... The parts are reasonable prices too. Iwata's are the best as far as most opinions go, but I found the price of spares a little too much.
Also if you upgrade a H&S the parts fit each other!
 
Everyone has their favourite brushes, and for various reasons, weight, balance, where the trigger is in relation to the cup etc, but I'll throw in my 2p's worth.
I would recommend the Iwata HP-CS, the reason being it's a really versatile brush, that's great to learn on as it has a .35 nozzle so is a bit less fiddly paint/reduction wise than some of the smaller ones, and has a self centering nozzle (this is a bit more expensive to replace (£20-ish). It is as far as nozzles go a pretty tough cookie, so as long as it's treated with care and not dropped etc, will last a very long time), and one piece trigger mechanism which makes maintenance and cleaning easier. With the slightly larger nozzle than a detail brush it can cope with slightly larger areas, but is also capable of doing very finely detailed work once you get to know it and get your paint/reduction/air ratios dialed in making it great for a variety of applications, including automotive - which is what I use it for, as well as dabbling in general art, and fabrics etc. It is also not a brush you will outgrow anytime soon, as the more you use it, the more you will get out of it detail wise, and it will last you a long time. I've had mine for 3 years and use it all the time, and I know of people who have had theirs for 10 years + and used them as a work horse.
 
That sounds like the one for me!

What would you recommend paint wise? I was thinking of just getting transparent black and getting on with things. Once I become capable of the bike stuff I can add the wicked colour type stuff but at this stage I want something that going to keep me interest for this year and I'll build on it as I go :)
 
Bum bum bum!! Yes there was gum which is what I've been trying to pick out. Lesson learned!! Glad it was learned on a cheaply brush.

Any recommendations on cleaners last time I used Medea stuff but if there's a better option I'm all ears.

Just making an eBay list at the mo for a new brush, paints and some cleaner.

Since you are in England, at any decorators shop they sell a blue liquid called "brush cleaner" I believe this water based, but check that it doesn't contain ammonia since this bad for your brush, you can also use Windoline non ammonia, but if your unsure simply use the cleaners recommended by the brand of brush you choose.

If your cheapy is gummed up you can probably get that out easy enough using by using the cellulose thinners I mentioned, although your cheapy is guaranteed to have cheap rubber seals and by that I mean cheap seals made of cheap rubber which have probably already cracked due to using white spirit, but that didn;t get the thinners will, lol

If you don't show your new brush a little more respect when it arrives we will have no option but to send round a member who lives close to you to slap your leg, lol
 
Paint is another thing that people have personal preferences for depending on what suits them best. I use Wicked paints as again, they are very versatile and suitable for many surfaces, and are also lightfast which makes them good for automotive. They work best with the W500 reducer (the W100 is good too but I prefer the 500) which helps with drying and gives a tougher cure - again very useful for automotive. Not so good if you want to do paper and board based art with lots of erasing techniques, although you can do it with the right surface, it isn't as easy as with some other brands. Some people don't like it because it doesn't work well reduced with water, and as an all rounder it is not specifically good for any one type of painting, so for instance someone who is only going to be doing fine art would maybe choose e'tac or com art etc.

I think it would be a good idea to find paints that can also be used for automotive and then get samples of each brand (if you email suppliers you may get sent a small amount) for free) or just buy maybe three small bottles of one colour from each of the most popular to try out, compare using the same ratios,adjust the ratios a few times to see if one works better used a certain way than others, and see which you get on with best. Then, as I think it's best to start as you mean to go on, you can learn with the paint you intend to use in the long term.

BTW, I don't live that far away from you, and am pretty good a leg slapping LOL.
 
Any thoughts on an Iwata hp-c not the plus just a c.

There's someone down the road to me selling one on eBay, was thinking of putting a bid in, only upto 22 quid at the mo. Wondered if it would be a good starter?
 
Would that be the HP CS? which is the eclipse series brush. It is a .35 nozzle gravity feed. All Iwata brushes are highly respected. As for nozzle size and paints, I can pull a razor thin line with a chinese knock off thinning plain cheap acrylic craft paints... However when learning at first I couldn't get paint to behave at all. And I wouldnt dream of running craft paints through my Krome or even my sparmax.

Save some money and plan on your first REAL airbrush paints buying one kit. Start learning from that. Com Art is my go to... but I have found the createx illustration line even better. (i have enough Com art to last a year except for transparent black, so i wont be changing soon) Wicked line has a kit with the reducer. You will find wicked a bit thicker than some of the other paints, but very versatile and good stuff. I can surely guarantee if you start out with ONE paint brand and kit and learn from that you will be better in the long run. One of the hardest things to explain to people is how to thin your paints simply because it changes depending on temps humidity, age of paint etc. After you get comfortable making one brand and type of paint work for you, it will be much easier to work with others and learn their quirks.
 
Nope it literally just says hp-c no s nothing.m

Well the local store stocks wicked so was thinking of going that route and just sticking to it. Getting myself some transparent black and just working on dots and lines maybe the eye. At this stage I just want to get the correct equipment to start properly rather than worrying about the gear I have
 
Nope it literally just says hp-c no s nothing.m

Well the local store stocks wicked so was thinking of going that route and just sticking to it. Getting myself some transparent black and just working on dots and lines maybe the eye. At this stage I just want to get the correct equipment to start properly rather than worrying about the gear I have
If you do start with Wicked make sure and get their reducer. It will act very funny thinning with water or other reducers.
Can you link that so I can see that brush? I might be able to find something about it then.
 
Ok dokey, will follow that, don't want to gum this brush up so intend to follow every bit of advice I receive.

The item number is 201283388387

I'm happy to go buy something brand new but if this will do what I want I may as well save some pennies
 
The HP-C is the older version of the HP-C plus I believe. (I think they have a 50th anniversary edition just come out?) Anyway I think it has the .3 nozzle and large cup 9ml I think. Not sure what the difference is between that and the C+ except that the C+ has the pre set handle (which isn't necessary IMO but some people like them) They are more expensive than the CS so could be good if you can get it for a good price.

However, if it really is just up the road, I would go and look at it first, and if possible ask to see it in action.If it is an older model then it may not have teflon seals, so they could be shot, are the needle and nozzle good - you may not be able to tell from looking whether the nozzle is good as it may be worn or flared, is there any scoring from bad cleaning, is the trigger spring good, is the airvalve leaking, is the packing screw worn? None of that is an issue as parts can be replaced, but if buying the brush and the cost of parts is going to be close to buying a new one, then I would just get a new one.

Edit - just looked at the item and it says in the Q&A section that they don't know if it's in working order, and that it came in two boxes. Seems like they have used the body of one with the parts of another. Still might be worth costing the price of all likely spares and then working out if it was worth it, but personally I would rather have the confidence of having a new one and knowing it was all good. Just seems like there might be too many uncertainties with it for me. But if you can go in person and check it out, who knows.
 
That's good enough for me, new it is. Let's face it I wouldn't know a good brush from bad at this stage and I'd just be looking at it thinking I have no idea if this is rubbish or not lol.

I can get a hp-cs from spraygunsdirect for 114 which looks to be a good price....watch this space lots of dots and lines to come soon lol
 
And for doing the tutorials - opaque black with w500 reducer?

Automotive is a Long way off so it's just paper at the moment but obviously will look to more expensive boards etc later down the road. Just want something that will make nice pictures while I learn. Or am I better to get the illustrator range?
 
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