New vintage airbrush

[Vladimir]

The steel tube is to make the tool with Dave. It was late and i may not have explained clearly enough, would it be better to make it from brass? I have some brass rod on order to drill and tap to get the 'feel' before I attempt it on the airbrush.

Thanks for the insight @Vladimir I will be checking the sizes very carefully with a micrometer

It seems I understand what tool. Mine is from brass, if that's the tool you're going to make.
But who knows what tool exactly you're going to make

I doubt you could measure inner thread size by the micrometer I meant inner threads above, not outer.

 

[jord001]

@SiRoxx Is that just a slot with a hole for the nozzle to sit in?

It seems I understand what tool. Mine is from brass, if that's the tool you're going to make.
But who knows what tool exactly you're going to make

I doubt you could measure inner thread size by the micrometer I meant inner threads above, not outer.

I think I know what you mean buddy.

I'm not worried about the thread size of the nozzle so much, I have some brass that I will drill and tap with each size to check which size the Iwata nozzle screws into. The main goal is just how to get the brass holder removed then I can work out how to replace the nozzle.
As you can see from the pics, the 'A' model is a bit like the eclipse setup, as in the nozzle is set in a brass holder that drops/screws in. The same principle but different in fitting. The 'A' model is a screw in brass holder but a push fit platinum nozzle, whereas the eclipse is a drop in brass holder with a screw in nozzle.


So as you can see on the 'A' picture the brass holder has the flats on the outside but no flats on the nozzle itself. unlike the iwata setup which is opposite.

So the tool I need to make is to fit the brass holder. The opening at the front of the airbrush is 4mm so the maximum diameter of the brass insert can't be any bigger than 4mm or it wouldn't go in through the end of the airbrush, its going to be an experience for sure but if I pull it off I will have an airbrush that can be used again.

I'm not an engineer or machinist but I am ok at making things. I don't have a lathe, so I will be using a drill press, hand tools and files, very carefully of course.

Any suggestions on the best way to make the tool will be greatly received.

Lee

 

[DaveG]

some will depend on how good a drill press you have - in part, it can be used much like a mill would be, but only if there is not much run-out in the quill. A good vise will help also... to make the tool, it will help if you have a jewelers saw - like a coping saw with a very thin kerf. You can drill a hole the diameter you want your slot to be in the side of your rod, and then use the jewelers saw to cut down from the top to remove the inner portion of the slot. Go narrow, and then use a file to dress your slot to size.

 

[SiRoxx]

@SiRoxx Is that just a slot with a hole for the nozzle to sit in?



I think I know what you mean buddy.

I'm not worried about the thread size of the nozzle so much, I have some brass that I will drill and tap with each size to check which size the Iwata nozzle screws into. The main goal is just how to get the brass holder removed then I can work out how to replace the nozzle.
As you can see from the pics, the 'A' model is a bit like the eclipse setup, as in the nozzle is set in a brass holder that drops/screws in. The same principle but different in fitting. The 'A' model is a screw in brass holder but a push fit platinum nozzle, whereas the eclipse is a drop in brass holder with a screw in nozzle.

View attachment 60233 View attachment 60234
So as you can see on the 'A' picture the brass holder has the flats on the outside but no flats on the nozzle itself. unlike the iwata setup which is opposite.

So the tool I need to make is to fit the brass holder. The opening at the front of the airbrush is 4mm so the maximum diameter of the brass insert can't be any bigger than 4mm or it wouldn't go in through the end of the airbrush, its going to be an experience for sure but if I pull it off I will have an airbrush that can be used again.

I'm not an engineer or machinist but I am ok at making things. I don't have a lathe, so I will be using a drill press, hand tools and files, very carefully of course.

Any suggestions on the best way to make the tool will be greatly received.

Lee

I think it was Dave G’s photo, but yes. The wrench sits over the nozzle like a socket for a ratchet and the flat inner part of the wrench lines up with the flats of the nozzle.


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[Vladimir]

The main goal is just how to get the brass holder removed then I can work out how to replace the nozzle.
As you can see from the pics, the 'A' model is a bit like the eclipse setup, as in the nozzle is set in a brass holder that drops/screws in. The same principle but different in fitting. The 'A' model is a screw in brass holder but a push fit platinum nozzle, whereas the eclipse is a drop in brass holder with a screw in nozzle.

So as you can see on the 'A' picture the brass holder has the flats on the outside but no flats on the nozzle itself. unlike the iwata setup which is opposite.

So the tool I need to make is to fit the brass holder. The opening at the front of the airbrush is 4mm so the maximum diameter of the brass insert can't be any bigger than 4mm or it wouldn't go in through the end of the airbrush, its going to be an experience for sure but if I pull it off I will have an airbrush that can be used again.

I'm not an engineer or machinist but I am ok at making things. I don't have a lathe, so I will be using a drill press, hand tools and files, very carefully of course.

Any suggestions on the best way to make the tool will be greatly received.

Lee

It seems I start to understand the goal I should read not the latest posts, but from the beginning. So the base has stuck inside and doesn't move, right?

I've looked at the blueprint and the nozzle with the base.
What I'd do is heating the end of the brush first. All the rubber that can be inside the AB must be removed. When the body becomes cold after heating, I'd put some liquid like WD-40 from from both ends to the nozzle base, or would soak end of the brush in it. Maybe after heating and soaking the base would start turning with the tool made for it, but I doubt. At least you could try, who knows maybe it would work.

So, generally, you need "removal" tool. It's not the tool I thought of above
I'd try smth conic shaped thing (conic tube), but how you would do that at home?

Little update. Similar to what Dave has shown may work. But I'm not sure if the brass tube would bear stuck nozzle base.

Making new base with japanese nozzle would be great for this model, I think.

 

[jord001]

Managed to spend half an hour on the green handled ab's and got the adjuster screws moving freely. Tried a super 63 nozzle cap in the 'A' but it doesn't fit Will have to try to get one of those. Had the brass and steel tube arrive today just waiting for another couple of pieces and the taps. Dave, I found a diamond cutting disk for my dremel in my tool box, that should be ok to cut the initial slot shouldn't it? Then use my needle files to hone it to the right size.
Just realised that badger airbrushes also use screw in nozzles., just seen one for the 100/150. What is the thread size compared to an Iwata? Are they larger or smaller? I'm guessing they will be in inches not mm but just wondered.

Lee

 

[jord001]

Even though I may not get a nozzle to fit these green handled AB Aerographs, Im still cracking on with what needs to get sorted in hope that something will found that fits, The newer one has a dodgy air valve spring so I got my trusty tweezers to unscrew the little brass bit at the end only to find it has 3 holes not 2.



Ok if I havent got a tool i will have to make one. With a lack of machine shop tools I quickly threw together a plan, measured the hole and found a bolt that matched 5mm. I firstly drilled the bolt out and after trying to file the 3 prongs into the bolt and failing I tried again, this time filing 3 flats on the bolt thread first. then I drilled a hole in the middle, its not on center but it will work. I filed the prongs to fit the valve and hey presto its a bit crude but it works..



Lee

 

[jord001]

Update: One green handled Aerograph is now working to an extent.
With my new valve tool I took out the valve pin and the spring had pretty much vanished, just a few mm of spring was left. I hadn't got a spring to fit as its only about 1cm long so I cut an Iwata one down then reassembled.
The nozzle was slightly damaged at the very tip so looking through a jewellers loupe I very very gently sanded the top of the nozzle with a sharpen air pad until it was flat.
Then I cleaned and polished the needle with 2300, 3200 and 6000 abrasive cloth but I think it has a very slight bend towards the tip. I put it all together and hooked it up to the compressor. It has a slight air leak which comes out the front, but I think that's down to the rubber washer on the air valve pin being shot and letting air through. Main thing is it sprays but slightly to the side (probably the nozzle, possible the needle too).
So next step is to replace the rubber washer and get a needle that I know is straight and try it again. I'm guessing it's around a .2 setup as the needle wouldn't go through a fine Super63 0.12 nozzle. I got some .2 needles on order however I might try it as is before they arrive with some paint see what its like.
Happy feelings getting something to work. Next is the other if I can sort a nozzle.

Lee

 

[jord001]

Sprays ok and I can get a fairly fine line, but not perfect. Didn't falter though, just not as fine as It could possibly be. Got another needle to try it and will adjust the nozzle tip a fraction to see if i can get it spraying straight .. We shall see. Also my taps came this morning so wont be long before I try to get a modern nozzle to fit the model A. Scared but excited, will practice cutting threads in something else first. 1.6mm is very small.

Lee

 

[jord001]

WOOO HOOOOOO

RESULT!

Ok, I have been up the garage again today and I have managed to make a nozzle removal tool for the model A.

After several fit tests, alterations and very gentle filing it fitted and started to grip the brass nozzle holder. It's a little crude as I only have basic hand tools and I also determined I need new glasses.


I wasn't sure how I was going to do this so I put the tool in the vice and placed the airbrush body on top, added a little downwards pressure and started to turn it. To my surprise it started to undo so I unscrewed it so far and then took the tool out of the vice and used it to remove the nozzle holder by hand. Great result.

Nozzle holder removed


Next was the mocking up the stage in the nozzle upgrade/conversion. I drilled some brass rod with a 1.5 mm drill. Then tried the 1.6mm tap in the hole with just my fingers. It worked to a certain extent but I couldn't get any pressure on it although it did cut a thread. I didn't have a tap wrench small enough to hold the tap so I decided to make one. It's a very small tap as you can imagine so I filed a slot each side of another piece of the stainless tube I used for the nozzle tool. The tap then passed through each side and it held in place.


While I was at it I thought I might as well cut a slot to fit the Iwata nozzle so that was my next little job. After a bit more filing it fitted so then it was time to start tapping the hole.


Tried the 1.6mm but it didn't feel right so I tried another piece with the 1.7mm and screwed in the Iwata nozzle with my freshly made nozzle tool. It went in!


Here's the actual brass nozzle holder I took out with the damaged nozzle in it.


I'm really pleased with myself managing to make the tools and get the results I was hoping for. So is 1.7mm the right size, I'm not 100% sure, it screws in pretty tight but I have to compare it to the 1.6mm to make sure. I got called down for dinner so when I get chance I will go and re-tap the 1.6mm piece of brass to see if it's any better.

I'm waiting for some info from John about removing the damaged nozzle from the holder and how to put some bits back together now I got them apart (a tiny pin back in the hold that holds the trigger together).

Then I will work out how I will go about tapping the nozzle holder for the Iwata nozzle to fit.

Thanks to anyone still reading although i'm probably boring you to death now. I just want to document it so that its there for others if they need it and to show you can do it with basic stuff. I'm considering remaking the tools to a better standard in the future as I may need them again.

@DaveG A big THANKYOU for the encouragement and advice that you have given me because it's given me the confidence to attempt this. I wish I had the skills to do what you do. (I'm looking for a small lathe).. don't tell the wife

Well that's it for now, hopefully I will have more progress and info soon.

Lee

 

[DaveG]

Bravo, Lee! That is one thing I have had to learn over the years, is to improvise to solve problems, and it sounds like you are doing a fine job of it.

I have never measured the threads of the Iwata nozzle, so can't help with the answer on that one.

 

[Vladimir]

WOOO HOOOOOO

RESULT!

That is cool, congrats!

Thanks to anyone still reading although i'm probably boring you to death now. I just want to document it so that its there for others if they need it and to show you can do it with basic stuff. I'm considering remaking the tools to a better standard in the future as I may need them again.

It was interesting reading. It's interesting to see what the desire to solve smth can bring someone to.

(I'm looking for a small lathe).. don't tell the wife

Ha, ha! You can not imagine now how many thing you will have to not to tell the wife in further future, as for running your lathe you'll need tons of tools, for the tools needed for your lathe you'll need other tools, and so on ... Man, it's much harder disease than AAD!

Well that's it for now, hopefully I will have more progress and info soon.

Lee

You will!

 

[SiRoxx]

Awesome work Lee! Making your own tools to get things done is pretty cool my friend. And it’s been an interesting read too! Double result.


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[jord001]

Bravo, Lee! That is one thing I have had to learn over the years, is to improvise to solve problems, and it sounds like you are doing a fine job of it.

I have never measured the threads of the Iwata nozzle, so can't help with the answer on that one.

Thanks for the kind words Dave, i've enjoyed the trip so far. The nozzle is either going to be 1.6 mm or 1.7 mm. The 1.7 is looking good right now but like i said I an going to retry the 1.6 again to confirm yes or no.

Awesome work Lee! Making your own tools to get things done is pretty cool my friend. And it’s been an interesting read too! Double result.

Thanks Si, I needed to get the nozzle out and you can't buy the tools. So unless your lucky enough to have got them somehow from the manufacturer, that was my only choice, Make your own! and although a bit crude, they work. I'm chuffed that I managed it. Just got to get the next step done now.

That is cool, congrats!
Ha, ha! You can not imagine now how many thing you will have to not to tell the wife in further future, as for running your lathe you'll need tons of tools, for the tools needed for your lathe you'll need other tools, and so on ... Man, it's much harder disease than AAD!

@Vladimir I'm ready for the challenge.. I already don't tell her about tools and airbrushes I doubt I would be able to hide a lathe but the tools I may succeed with And yes I will be updating very soon with my findings....

Thanks for all the positive comments, it helps immensely

Lee

 

[jord001]

Well I've re-tapped some brass with the 1.6mm and it feels just as good as the 1.7mm so basically i'm saying I can't tell the difference. The next size down is 1.4mm so I don't think that's an option. When inserted in the brass it feels as tight as when it's in an airbrush so I think it will be ok. I drilled the hole with a 1.5mm drill so 1.7 should possibly have a deeper thread cut than a 1.6 (I think). Thats it for now. I'm waiting for some answers so it might take a day or two.

Lee

 

[Vladimir]

@Vladimir I'm ready for the challenge.. I already don't tell her about tools and airbrushes I doubt I would be able to hide a lathe but the tools I may succeed with And yes I will be updating very soon with my findings....

Even the smallest lathe is impossible to hide I mean those among which you're going to choose from. But other tools required is another story! You'll have to find all the mighty creativity in yourself for hiding them

Well I've re-tapped some brass with the 1.6mm and it feels just as good as the 1.7mm so basically i'm saying I can't tell the difference. The next size down is 1.4mm so I don't think that's an option. When inserted in the brass it feels as tight as when it's in an airbrush so I think it will be ok. I drilled the hole with a 1.5mm drill so 1.7 should possibly have a deeper thread cut than a 1.6 (I think). Thats it for now. I'm waiting for some answers so it might take a day or two.

Lee

The nozzle must be tight in there. I've spoiled one japanese AB by cutting full threads with proper tap (the nozzle screws in, but isn't that tight inside as normally in the AB). Can't say about the size of the threads in different japanese ABs, I'm working with other thing for now. HP+ has bigger threads than old HP etc. Eclipse 0.35 nozzle base has the same threading as HP+, but again, I didn't write the measuring. All of the nozzle threads (japanese) are metric.

 

[jord001]

Yeh Vlad, I know what you mean. I've ordered 1.1mm and 1.2mm drill bits and a m1.4 tap to have another go, can't seem to find a m1.5 tap so we shall see when it comes, and see if the nozzle fits the thread. Just need to rule out if its smaller or not.

What size nozzle threads have you come across? Anything with a bigger thread than the iwata's ??

Lee

 

[Vladimir]

Yeh Vlad, I know what you mean. I've ordered 1.1mm and 1.2mm drill bits and a m1.4 tap to have another go, can't seem to find a m1.5 tap so we shall see when it comes, and see if the nozzle fits the thread. Just need to rule out if its smaller or not.

What size nozzle threads have you come across? Anything with a bigger thread than the iwata's ??

Lee

I think, it's the easiest thing to match the threads in the process you've started. So, no big deal.
I've started to laugh here. Just measure the threads on the nozzle you're going to use and you're there! Pull out your micrometer.

Yes, I wanted to fit bigger threads in big airbrush and failed. The threads are normal, but not for the AB nozzle. That was my lesson, not free one.

 

[jord001]

I think, it's the easiest thing to match the threads in the process you've started. So, no big deal.
I've started to laugh here. Just measure the threads on the nozzle you're going to use and you're there! Pull out your micrometer.

Yes, I wanted to fit bigger threads in big airbrush and failed. The threads are normal, but not for the AB nozzle. That was my lesson, not free one.

So have you found any nozzles with bigger threads? I ask because the AE airbrush nozzle has a bigger thread than an Iwata and if i could find something similar i would tap it out to fit.



Lee

 

[Vladimir]

So have you found any nozzles with bigger threads? I ask because the AE airbrush nozzle has a bigger thread than an Iwata and if i could find something similar i would tap it out to fit.

View attachment 60322

Lee

That was trigger type AB with big (compared to other ABs) tube that allows to fit bigger threads nozzle, actually to cut bigger threads. I decided to use chinese nozzle as the bottom trigger type AB is not for the detail work and cheap nozzle would work good for the background work. I didn't want to spend cash for a new japanese original nozzle and made a decision to experiment as I don't find bottom trigger type AB to be a big treasure It's just kinda micro spray gun, nothing else. For the spray guns nozzles requirements are a bit different than for an AB nozzle.
But, it would be better to buy new nozzle, as now the AB is just a body for the collection

In your case I wouldn't use chinese nozzle for some reasons. First - you will not have fine line with it (as I understand your AB is supposed to be fine detail tool), second - japanese nozzles would be centered better for the reason of smaller threads. There are some other reasons, it's a long story