Not the Createx 4013 post ;-) E'Tac AG 2050 + Createx Paint

[DaveG]

To avoid hijacking that other post further, I felt it best to start another thread...

I have just started to fool around with testing this stuff, so there is still much to learn. I purchased a bottle of Grex Base Modifier GXPS-AG (which is E'tac Autograph 2050). It is supposed to work with any kind of acrylic paint, with it's main bonus being that it makes them water reducible.

My first test was to add a few drops of the 2050 to a cup, and add a drop of Createx Illustration (Black) straight from the bottle just to observe what would happen. The illustration color immediately started to spread throughout the 2050. After a few moments, gentle stirring with a paint brush completely combined the mix, which looked uniform and smooth.

I then added 1 drop 2050 to 2 drops CI Black to a cup. I then added 2 drops of a 2% solution of E'tac condition-air, and about 5 drops of water to get the consistency I was looking for. I loaded it into an Iwata Eclipse HP-BS that I am starting to work with, and had at it with some squiggles and line tests. To get a comparison, I then cleaned the brush, and added 2 drops of CI Black, 2 drops 2% condition-air, and about 7 drops of water to the brush. I repeated my attempt to draw squiggles and lines, but found tip dry would cut off the exercise after just a few seconds.

I photographed my first little test sheets below - during the CI+2050 mix test, I used a q-tip to clean the needle 1 time. On the CI+Water test, I cleaned the needle 3 times. My conclusion is that the stuff does work at allowing the paint to continue to flow. But, I will speculate right up front that it also negates a lot of the after spray properties of CI that make it so attractive to use. I think when it dries, it dries hard, so erasing may be out...

I am going to test a bunch more looking for a minimum 2050 ratio I can get away using to increase spray time between needle cleanings, without adversely effecting the after spray characteristics of the CI by itself.

 

[JackEb]

Awesome thread, thanks Dave
It’s interesting that you had tip dry with almost pure water, in the past I’ve used straight water and get a good long time before tip dry, the only downside is it’s not good on synthetic, it stays wet for to long and therefor easily damaged.
Great on claybord though if your not planning on erasing

 

[DaveG]

Awesome thread, thanks Dave
It’s interesting that you had tip dry with almost pure water, in the past I’ve used straight water and get a good long time before tip dry, the only downside is it’s not good on synthetic, it stays wet for to long and therefor easily damaged.
Great on claybord though if your not planning on erasing

We are in Winter, so are under forced heating. This time of year, tip dry is a B!#ch. I have several brushes that will spray the Createx CI right out of the bottle (most days) - even though it seems to be rather thick, and gloopy. They will spray, and spray, and spray with little or no tip dry. The second I add anything - water, alcohol, reducer, anything - it will tip dry from the moment I start to release air. Been trying to crack that nut for ages now...

 

[JackEb]

I look forward to seeing what’s inside the nut ! I have very similar issues with tip dry, I don’t have enough words to describe my frustration

 

[Kim McCann]

On the subject of other additives, for those struggling with tip dry I stumbled across liquitex flow improver a while back. I know a lot of folk in the gaming community were talking about it, so I thought it might be worth a try. You mix it 1 or 2 parts flow improver to 10 parts water, and then if I added a drop to my cup while spraying wicked or aa, I found tip dry all but eliminated. I was shocked at the improvement. Of course, your milage may vary depending on humidity and temperature, but it's only a couple bucks for a bottle and because of how much you dilute it, it will last you forever. It might be worth a try. With the Createx paints, I could spray, even the white, for 20 - 30 minutes at a time without having to clean the needle, with golden high flow, even after an hour of continuous use, I never had to clear the needle once.

I dunno what kinda black magic is in that bottle, but I use it pretty much all the time now, especially if I am doing detail work.

Not sure how it would go with etac or the 2050, but I bet it's worth a try. I got a small bottle for $4 on sale and am still using it months later. Lasts forever.

 

[SiRoxx]

On the subject of other additives, for those struggling with tip dry I stumbled across liquitex flow improver a while back. I know a lot of folk in the gaming community were talking about it, so I thought it might be worth a try. You mix it 1 or 2 parts flow improver to 10 parts water, and then if I added a drop to my cup while spraying wicked or aa, I found tip dry all but eliminated. I was shocked at the improvement. Of course, your milage may vary depending on humidity and temperature, but it's only a couple bucks for a bottle and because of how much you dilute it, it will last you forever. It might be worth a try. With the Createx paints, I could spray, even the white, for 20 - 30 minutes at a time without having to clean the needle, with golden high flow, even after an hour of continuous use, I never had to clear the needle once.

I dunno what kinda black magic is in that bottle, but I use it pretty much all the time now, especially if I am doing detail work.

Not sure how it would go with etac or the 2050, but I bet it's worth a try. I got a small bottle for $4 on sale and am still using it months later. Lasts forever.

That’s interesting. I haven’t tried Liquitex flow improver, I have the Vallejo version a go, but it seemed to make Wicked seed. I’ll try to get some liquitex and compare that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SiRoxx]

This is a really interesting thread Dave. Thanks for sharing it here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[huskystafford]

I need to post something in this thread so I get notifications. I am very interested in this thread so here it is. My notifications are on my way from now on.

 

[Ronald art]

I know the AG 2050 has a small window in which it can be erased I dont know how it will act on synthetic paper when mixed with the CI that is made for use on synthetic paper

 

[DaveG]

I have Liquitex Flow Improver, as well as Golden's version. Neither one really helps much with Illustration colors - at least not for me.
I have noticed a difference while using Golden High Flow, or Com-art colors, though.

 

[jord001]

I have the 2050 and condition air which I have eused in the past. However I use the 2050 for clear coat over the etac as its so delicate. I do have Liquitex satin Spray laquer now though so can use the 2050 as the modifier instead.

Thanks for the info, always good to know.

Lee

 

[Kim McCann]

I have Liquitex Flow Improver, as well as Golden's version. Neither one really helps much with Illustration colors - at least not for me.
I have noticed a difference while using Golden High Flow, or Com-art colors, though.

Interesting, I recently (this week) switched to CI out of frustration with Wicked seeding and clogging (due to the 4012 issues it seems), and was using 4011 with the flow improver. I hadn't tried it with CI yet, but honestly hadn't needed to. CI seems to work fine with straight 4011 with very little tip dry at all. I might set up a controlled experiment tho, maybe with white, and compare. Maybe CI doesn't need it.

I definitely see a huge difference in Golden tho. I've never used Com Art, but find that interesting.

Makes me curious what it is about the paints it works in. They must share some chemistry that makes it work.

 

[DaveG]

Interesting, I recently (this week) switched to CI out of frustration with Wicked seeding and clogging (due to the 4012 issues it seems), and was using 4011 with the flow improver. I hadn't tried it with CI yet, but honestly hadn't needed to. CI seems to work fine with straight 4011 with very little tip dry at all. I might set up a controlled experiment tho, maybe with white, and compare. Maybe CI doesn't need it.

I definitely see a huge difference in Golden tho. I've never used Com Art, but find that interesting.

Makes me curious what it is about the paints it works in. They must share some chemistry that makes it work.

The CI is the only Createx paint I work with, so all comments I make are in regard to it. I have one serious love/hate relationship with the stuff. I keep swearing that I am gonna stop using it, but it is inevitable that while working on a project, I start reaching for it.