Paasche "V" blowing no paint or water, we'll sort of

N

Novista

Guest
Alright all?! Sorry to bore you'll to death with what I suspect is a noob prob, but hey. Apart from it being frustrating for me, it became interesting, well to me at least.
So I took my brush apart to clean and replace the needle and tip after finding out that trying to push the tip out with card board would still knacker it. So I purchased the vm-1 set and set about cleaning the rest. Replaced needle and tip, no water, lots of air though. This "V" loads from the right, I think that makes it suction feed? Now when I blow air through, without tip, body and needle, I get air and water, however the water still comes through with no help or just blowing, pull action doesn't make a difference., sorry I forgot to mention it's double action. Replace body no joy, although it will blow back up the cup. Here's the interesting part ( for me, noob science :) ), if I place 3 gromets on the main brush body, (I believe the tip isn't seated properly) then replace the needle body and all, if I depress the trigger I can here the brush sucking on the cup, if I pull back I get only air. Hope somebody can point me in the right direction. Ta.
 
Not too sure with the paasche but others can help I expect. Post a picture will help. If it loads to the side it's a side feed, more prssure needed than a gravity but less than a suction. What is the "body" you refer too, that is normally the biggest bit of the airbrush - are you referring to the nozzle...? blow back is sounding like a nozzle blockage.

Now, can we get you to go to the introductions page and let us know who you are, what gear you use, background, type of paint, etc. Helps us answer questions better. It makes things less awkward than when talking to a stranger... :) Here is a link to help you out. http://www.airbrushforum.org/introductions/

Also have a read of the Nettiquette... http://www.airbrushforum.org/threads/introducing-netiquette.8799/

Cheers Mark
 
I would say blocked nozzle too along with Mark,also check to see if the chuck nut is tight and needle moves back as you pull back on the trigger?Needle might be too tight in the nozzle( Stuck)
 
The "body" is described in a paasche manual as the aircap body, which I think you guys are calling the nozzle. That would make complete sense. My problem is/was that I can see through all the minute holes in the nozzle and assumed no blockage? Thanks for your help.

@Mark I've posted in introductions and read netiquette. Thanks.
 
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The nozzle only has one hole that the needle go's thru the air sprays out the small holes around the nozzle pulling the paint from around the needle. Another thing that will cause your brush not to spray paint is the nozzle cap/aircap has a small leak around the threads you can fix that with a little lip balm(chapstik) on the threads before tighting it down
 
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Also NEVER ASSUME when it comes to blockage in an airbrush.If its not spraying paint but you get air theres a blockage or air leak:malicious: Can you upload a picture of the exploded view in the instruction so we can point you in the right direction?
 
It's a little weird, as every manufacturer likes to use their own pet terms for the same parts, so the closest thing to "standardized" lingo is user community lingo.

In general though:

Paasche lingo-------------------common use term

"tip"-------------------------------"nozzle"
"air cap"--------------------------"air cap"
"air cap body" ------------------"tip"

In common use terminology, "body" typically referrs the the central body of the brush itself (the part that contains the air valve and needle packing), so referring to any other part as the "body" will cause confusion (this is Paasche's fault, not yours).

Some of what you're describing I can parse, but some of it is unclear due to terms which are neither common nor in the Paasche doc (grommets? needle body?). Some of what you're describing sounds like odd half-assembly (running water through the brush with no needle? Is that with the needle pulled back, or the needle entirely removed?). Without clearer description it's hard to figure out what might be going on.

One thing I can help with though is your concern about the nozzle not being seated properly. In order to install the nozzle to ensure it's seated properly do the following:

Remove the air cap, tip, and nozzle. Loosen the needle chuck enough so the needle slides easily, but with a little friction still, and push the needle forward so it sticks out further than it would with the whole head assembly installed. Point the brush upward, and place the nozzle onto the needle. Since the needle is pushed forward, the nozzle will be sitting loose atop the needle like a hat rather than seated in the body. Place the tip over the nozzle, and gently push down on the tip so the needle slides down (the tip pushes on the nozzle, which in turn pushes down the needle), until the tip makes contact with the threads on the body. Screw down the tip securely, then go back and tighten down the needle chuck without moving the needle. The nozzle should now be seated in perfect alignment, with the needle seated perfectly in the nozzle. Basically you're using the needle and the tip to guide the nozzle's alignment as it's being seated.
 
Thanks Nessus, I'll give that a go and get back. I sent an email to Paasche today to confirm what parts are what. As currently they are referring to the VLH series aircap body as "head" just to make things clearer... And I'd also like to know whether they are compatible with my brush. Also I wondered whether the "head" is compatible with the needle and tip I have. As the head is the original (my brush is second hand) and the needle and tip are ones I bought recently, is there a way I could measure the old needle and or tip to determine what size, ooh I could do that with the current head also.
 
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What we talk about are 1,2,3, on the view,
#1 tip (protects the needle tip)
#2 nozzle cap (holds the nozzle in place)
#3nozzle(sized for needle size)
.035,.002 ect.
I Would also check to see if it's sucking air from the tube going into the brushand if the vent in the bottle is clogged
 
@Nessus Tried your way of loading the needle, a better way to do it than I have been, however still no joy. I have also just shot the nozzle out my shed door. :)
@basepaint once I here back from Paasche, I'm hoping I will get the correct nozzle cap (head) even if I already have the correct one and it's something else, at least I've ruled it out (ish). Better that than me forking out for a new brush until I have to.
Where the nozzle cap attaches, there are what appears to be two score marks, but I'm not sure, so will leave taking glass paper to it, until I've exhausted everything else.
Thanks for all your help.
 
Got excited after re-reading nessus' msg, slipped whilst tightening nozzle, small cut in finger and another ruined needle. Feeling annoyed!
 
@Nessus Experimentation, I wanted to see whether any water would be released if I removed the head, and held the tip in place, but obviously not tight enough.
On another note, I received an email from Paasche with a copy of their latest PDF including my model, by the looks of things their needle, tip and cap sets of which there are three are all different. Which I think means the cap is important, otherwise why sell three? And there is only one type of head.
And another, I have have found a store within 20 miles, it's an airbrush supplier. So I'm hoping to pop along on Friday. If there's no joy there, I will get a new brush. As I can just about afford something around the £100-150 mark, for me it's it's about the time I could be spending painting rather than cutting myself with needles and trying to suss out problems, not that getting a new brush may eliminate that or I haven't been learning anything. It's just frustrating and isn't enjoyable.
 
oh yeh, and I'm thinking badger crescendo or a Paasche around the same mark.
 
Between the two, I'd be much more inclined to recommend the Badger. I have two Badger brushes, and they both perform well, (though the machining is rough in places). I also have two Paasches, and although they have cleaner looking construction than the Badgers, they don't actually perform nearly as well, and IMO they're fussier to clean than they seem like they should be. Plus I tried to buy a new Paasche (a Talon) a few years ago, and it was such a sorry QC nightmare that it put me off Paasche for good.

I don't know much about the Crescendo. Usually the top beginners' brush recommendation among Badgers is the Krome, though that is a bit more expensive.

My recommendation for a beginner is typically an Iwata Eclipse, but since you're in the UK (I presume, since your're citing your budget in pounds), I think a Harder & Steenbeck Evolution Solo is the best value in your budget range by a wide margin. H&S brushes are considered similar to the higher range Iwatas in quality, and in the UK they're cheaper than Iwatas or Badgers due to being manufactured geographically closer (Germany).

An H&S Evo Solo will be higher quality, and cheaper than a Crescendo in the UK (going by the prices on Amazon UK). From my experiences with Paasche, I have zero doubt an H&S would be a night and day difference in quality.

Plus H&S's nozzle is a master class of design, IMO. Clearly dead easy to handle, and physically impossible to misalign.
 
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Novista said:
Experimentation, I wanted to see whether any water would be released if I removed the head, and held the tip in place, but obviously not tight enough.
Click to expand...

Think of the airflow gap between the head and the nozzle tip as being like a lens for airflow. Picture using a magnifying glass to burn paper with sunlight. The same amount of light that'll burn paper when it's all crammed down into 1 or 2mm will only feel warm at best when it's spread out over several cm. The airflow being channeled tightly past the nozzle by the head creates a tiny, concentrated low pressure zone focused right over the nozzle opening, which is what sucks the paint out. Without the head to focus the air like that, the air flow just expands broadly, so you don't get that concentrated low pressure zone, and the paint will just dribble more or less the way it would with no airflow.

The nozzle probably got propelled out of your fingers because the holes where the airflow exits the body are right next to the "shelf" where the nozzle tapers back to fit into the body. So there's an undercut where air pressure can catch before it dissipates too far, and having your fingers there holding the nozzle turns that undercut into a pocket where the pressure can build until it's enough to explosively dislodge the nozzle from your grip.
 
Nessus said:
Think of the airflow gap between the head and the nozzle tip as being like a lens for airflow. Picture using a magnifying glass to burn paper with sunlight. The same amount of light that'll burn paper when it's all crammed down into 1 or 2mm will only feel warm at best when it's spread out over several cm. The airflow being channeled tightly past the nozzle by the head creates a tiny, concentrated low pressure zone focused right over the nozzle opening, which is what sucks the paint out. Without the head to focus the air like that, the air flow just expands broadly, so you don't get that concentrated low pressure zone, and the paint will just dribble more or less the way it would with no airflow.

The nozzle probably got propelled out of your fingers because the holes where the airflow exits the body are right next to the "shelf" where the nozzle tapers back to fit into the body. So there's an undercut where air pressure can catch before it dissipates too far, and having your fingers there holding the nozzle turns that undercut into a pocket where the pressure can build until it's enough to explosively dislodge the nozzle from your grip.
Click to expand...
So THATS how you blow the nozzle out the door:D:Dlollollol
Sorry couldn't help myself ;)
 
Novista said:
@Nessus
Experimentation, I wanted to see whether any water would be released if I removed the head, and held the tip in place, but obviously not tight enough.
Click to expand...

Why do I feel that should have been accompanied by a "don't try this at home, i'm a trained professional" disclaimer :laugh:
 
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