Prevent needle crashing into nozzle

[BullBuchanan]

Hey all,

I'm a fairly novice airbrush user focused on painting miniatures and over the last two days I've had two nozzles on two different airbrushes (Patriot 105 and Iwata eclipse get ruined - one split and one flared) by the spring loaded mechanism that pushes against the airbrush sticking in the compressed position and then working free which shot the needle forward and overextended through the nozzle.

With the badger it happened while I was cleaning primer out of my cup and with the Iwata it happened as I was testing the trigger after a full teardown, clean and reassembly after acquiring it yesterday. This is an expensive and massive headache.

In the year or so I've been airbrushing, I think this is responsible for all of my damaged nozzles. Has this happened to anyone else and what did you do to prevent it?

 

[JackEb]

@DaveG any chance you can translate ?

Bull, my thoughts are that you’ve pushed the needle too far forward befor tightening the needle chuck and you’re letting the trigger ‘snap shut’

 

[DaveG]

The solution is pretty easy - don't do that!

On the Badger, there is that "T" slot at the back, which makes it possible for the auxiliary lever to snag on occasion - just takes a bit of time to develop the muscle memory to never allow the trigger to return forward without your finger on it. If the aux lever jammed on the Eclipse, you simply assembled it wrong - and again, never allowing the trigger forward without a finger on it would catch the snap forward needle.

Just a bit of observation - on both brushes, there is a positive stop of the trigger against the brush body - it is a finite stop. Following that, the aux lever butts up against the trigger, the needle chuck against that. There is nothing that would allow for "over extension", especially not from the rather mild needle spring. If your needle is damaging your nozzle, you most likely seated it too aggressively to begin with... but, the needle should never be allowed to snap forward without a finger on the trigger to control it. Beyond that, it is simply user error.

 

[BullBuchanan]

The solution is pretty easy - don't do that!

On the Badger, there is that "T" slot at the back, which makes it possible for the auxiliary lever to snag on occasion - just takes a bit of time to develop the muscle memory to never allow the trigger to return forward without your finger on it. If the aux lever jammed on the Eclipse, you simply assembled it wrong - and again, never allowing the trigger forward without a finger on it would catch the snap forward needle.

Just a bit of observation - on both brushes, there is a positive stop of the trigger against the brush body - it is a finite stop. Following that, the aux lever butts up against the trigger, the needle chuck against that. There is nothing that would allow for "over extension", especially not from the rather mild needle spring. If your needle is damaging your nozzle, you most likely seated it too aggressively to begin with... but, the needle should never be allowed to snap forward without a finger on the trigger to control it. Beyond that, it is simply user error.

I definitely didn't seat it too aggressively - i totally babied the thing after what happened with the badger. I noticed that the stop behind the trigger on my eclipse was stuck back which was holding the spring assembly, but before i could do anything it re-engaged and slammed the needle forward. It sounds like my mistake was taking my finger off the trigger while trying to fix it. holding the trigger back would have prevented that, right?

I acquired the brush second hand and was disassembled it to clean it due to mushy triggers, and in trying to work it I may have pulled back on the trigger and released it - don't really remember. I had no idea that could break a nozzle though if that's what you're saying.

The iwata is still usable , but it pushed the needle about a half a mil beyond the front cap. When I put my finger over the front I can feel the needle, while on my renegade it's seated under the rim of the front cap, so I'm pretty sure it overextended the nozzle a touch. It still seems to spray fine, and it has a .5mm nozzle on it that I probably will switch to a .35mm anyway, so it's not a huge deal. It's just getting very expensive.

 

[JackEb]

Are you saying it’s protruding past part #2 - it should
If it protruding past part # 1 it shouldnt
#2 should always be matched to the needle size in the Iwata brushes. If you have a .35 needle and the .5 air cap it won’t seal properly

 

[BullBuchanan]

Are you saying it’s protruding past part #2 - it should
If it protruding past part # 1 it shouldnt
#2 should always be matched to the needle size in the Iwata brushes. If you have a .35 needle and the .5 air cap it won’t seal properly

View attachment 66343

It's no protruding slightly past cap 1 since the spring slammed forward. I don't believe that the needle is a .35mm, but I don't have a set of calipers to check. I'm pretty sure it was below part 1 before it happened.

 

[JackEb]

If you have the siphon feed it comes as a .5 set up if you have one of the other Models of eclipse they come as a .35 standard but you can change parts to make it. .5
When you buy a used unit ALWAYS factor in the cost of air cap, nozzle and needle as the previous owner may have replaced one, some or all of those parts not necessarily correctly or they may have damaged the needle/nozzle and were unaware or less than truthful. If you are going to dig your hand into your pocket i would suggest digging a little deeper and get the 3 items then at least you know they all match.
@DaveG they’re the only 3 things that are needed aren’t they ? I don’t recall there being anything else to change.
The Eclipse series is pretty bullet proof if you treat them with the respect a finely tuned tool deserves

 

[DaveG]

It's no protruding slightly past cap 1 since the spring slammed forward. I don't believe that the needle is a .35mm, but I don't have a set of calipers to check. I'm pretty sure it was below part 1 before it happened.

Needle protrusion is not a good way to determine anything, as it can vary with each needle and each nozzle. The two set up's pictured below are both the same combination of parts by part number, so the same size - in this case "fine" setup's. You can clearly see one needle protrudes much further than the other... In the case of your Eclipse - if the needle was not removed and reinserted after the mishap - there is no way it can be further forward than it was before... the needle chuck can only move so far forward. As far as measuring your needle - they don't get measured like that - so a caliper is not going to be of any use there. Needles are assigned sizes based on the taper they have, in conjunction with the nozzle opening they are designed to fit. About the only way to accurately measure one is to compare it to a known sample. If you know you have three sizes, it is generally fairly easy to tell them apart, if nothing me than seeing them as small, medium and large - based solely on the taper at the front of the needle - they will be long, medium and blunt...

I would spray test each brush and see what they do. If I was not happy with the results they produced, I would buy replacement parts to bring them back to factory fresh. As Jackie said, when buying used I always figure in the cost of the needle, nozzle, and usually a nozzle cap - more times than not these are the first parts damaged by a novice, so I normally just replace them if in doubt.