Reducing H&S Infinity trigger action delay

[Drastion]

After really liking the H&S 2024 Evolution so much I thought I would give my Infinity a second chance. When I first got it it sprayed a amazingly focused thin line. I just could not get along with the trigger s delayed response. I would have to pull it back a ways instead of getting paint right when I pull on the trigger like my oh so familiar Badger Sotar.

There was a video that is now taken down. Where you put some nozzle seals on the needle tube to get it in greater contact with the crescent of the trigger. It did improve the response to almost be immediate. But using a Teflon seal as a load bearing surface did not seem like a good idea.

Tried some washes but they were not small enough to clear the inside if the body. Then pieced together some protective covers for paint brushes and really reduced the needle spring tension. That got it almost there again but there was a little slop still where the trigger interacted with the crescent. So I tried a few times and got a strip of the protector into the gap around the trigger shaft. I need to get it a bit better because it binds and won't let me get full range of motion. But now trigger response is perfect with no delay at all.

I was curious about what others have done to get there pre-2024 Infinity to respond like the high end airbrush they are ment to be.

It looks a bit goofy. But I can post pictures of my mod in case anyone is curious or I am just not explaining what I did very clearly.

 

[tatocorvette]

Nice! I don't have H&S but I am curious. I'd love to see picture as I am not sure I fully understand it.

Thanks,
Ismael

 

[Drastion]

Nice! I don't have H&S but I am curious. I'd love to see picture as I am not sure I fully understand it.

Thanks,
Ismael

It will be easier to take pictures when it is brighter. But the back lever is a crescent that the trigger is in one end of.

KYIV INFINITY Full Trigger Assembly - SprayGunner

KYIV INFINITY Full Trigger Assembly at Spraygunner.com

spraygunner.com

To allow the lever to change angle without binding. The opening is rather wide so at the start the trigger can move back and fourth without affecting the back lever. Also the back of the lever does not firmly contact the needle tube. I assume the variable curve to it is ment to have the trigger not move the the needle much at first then have a greater affect the farther you move back. So tiny movement of trigger at first makes for a tiny movement of needle the farther you go back the greater ratio of trigger to needle movement.

 

[RK Ink and Focus]

I honestly never found the lag thing an issue but I do find it interesting how people are finding work arounds for it and customising the feel of their brushes. I think I just view it like getting into a car with a different clutch bite point. I can see why though if say you have 4 brushes at your bench doing a workpiece, 3 that paint at the lightest touch of the trigger then the 4th is behaving differently like the old h&s then it could highlight it.

 

[DaveG]

There is nothing you can do to the original Infinity trigger that will be as effective as changing the trigger to the new Evo 2024 unit. As mentioned, the original lever is meant to be (and is) progressive. Small movements at first, larger movements the further you draw back. The new trigger is a single ratio throughout. The washers, spacers, etc are placebo (at best). The chucking guide is always in contact with the trigger back lever, so the needle is always influenced by any movement.

 

[Airbrushkid]

Dred fx had a video on how he fixed. I tried it and it does work. But now Dred fx remove the video and I don’t know why. But I did come across a video osoneone else using Dred fx fix. I copied at time he started showing. Also rambles on. Please let me know if the video doesn’t work.

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[Drastion]

Nice! I don't have H&S but I am curious. I'd love to see picture as I am not sure I fully understand it.

Thanks,
Ismael

Here it looks bad and I need to adjust the one one the trigger. But it was late and it worked at all so I was happy.

I honestly never found the lag thing an issue but I do find it interesting how people are finding work arounds for it and customising the feel of their brushes. I think I just view it like getting into a car with a different clutch bite point. I can see why though if say you have 4 brushes at your bench doing a workpiece, 3 that paint at the lightest touch of the trigger then the 4th is behaving differently like the old h&s then it could highlight it.

Yeah that is it. I am so used to my current airbrushes. If I readjusted it would probably spray better since that is the way it was designed to. It was just simpler to me to mod it to relearn my rigger control.

There is nothing you can do to the original Infinity trigger that will be as effective as changing the trigger to the new Evo 2024 unit. As mentioned, the original lever is meant to be (and is) progressive. Small movements at first, larger movements the further you draw back. The new trigger is a single ratio throughout. The washers, spacers, etc are placebo (at best). The chucking guide is always in contact with the trigger back lever, so the needle is always influenced by any movement.

I just didn't get along with how little the trigger moved in its stock form. I need to adjust the changes I made. Because now the trigger is too sensitive and does not have such a smooth transition but that is how my Sotar works already. It is another fun little tinkering project to work on.

Dred fx had a video on how he fixed. I tried it and it does work. But now Dred fx remove the video and I don’t know why. But I did come across a video osoneone else using Dred fx fix. I copied at time he started showing. Also rambles on. Please let me know if the video doesn’t work.

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I remembered it and searched all over and could not find it. Watched to video you linked and showed a dead link.

My quess is he was part of the reveal so they didn't want people looking for info finding that video and thinking the new one has a pre-existing issue. Only a guess though. I marked for later view and the video was just gone.

 

[Airbrushkid]

The video I posted works if you click on Watch on YouTube. I see you have a small piece of tubing on the needle chuck. Does that work for you? I used the Teflon o-rings that Dred fx mention. Had to ream them out a bit.

 

[JackEb]

There is nothing you can do to the original Infinity trigger that will be as effective as changing the trigger to the new Evo 2024 unit. As mentioned, the original lever is meant to be (and is) progressive. Small movements at first, larger movements the further you draw back. The new trigger is a single ratio throughout. The washers, spacers, etc are placebo (at best). The chucking guide is always in contact with the trigger back lever, so the needle is always influenced by any movement.

I remember a previous thread where you changed the 'old' infinity trigger for the Evo24 one and were pleased with the results after changing out the spring. Are you still happy with that 'mod' ?

 

[Drastion]

The video I posted works if you click on Watch on YouTube. I see you have a small piece of tubing on the needle chuck. Does that work for you? I used the Teflon o-rings that Dred fx mention. Had to ream them out a bit.

Yeah it works great. The trigger shaft part I am not so sure about. It does not allow the lever to move up and down the trigger freely. Without it it only needs a tiny movement before paint with it it is instant.

I just used tubing because everywhere I read Teflon can deform. I take the needle out to clean so. I was not worried about deformation pressing the needle into the nozzle. Just wanted a more long term set and forget solutions. Thought about a brass tube with a polished end. But taking more time to experiment before something like that.

 

[Drastion]

I remember a previous thread where you changed the 'old' infinity trigger for the Evo24 one and were pleased with the results after changing out the spring. Are you still happy with that 'mod' ?

Main issue was the post that I put the spacer on is round in the old one. The new one is more square shaped. So they are not quite the same.

The tube guide has a different thread so it does not fit the body on my Kyiv. Did not try putting the needle tube in the old tube guide. Will have to give that a try.

I am sure shortly H&S will release a video on parts compatibility if new parts on old Infinity. I know the new nozzle/head is a complete redesign so this will not be cross compatible.

 

[DaveG]

I had no trouble installing the 2024 Evolution trigger into my Infinity. Absolutely replaces the progressive geometry of the original trigger and back lever with a linear movement - This brush will remain this way. Pretty sure AirbrushKid has his set up this way, too.

Warrick touched on compatibility between new and old in one of the recent introduction videos. The head and nozzle pieces are 100% compatible as far as fit. The new 2024 body is designed to allow for more air flow through the body feeding the new head and nozzle. For this reason, using the new parts (especially the new nozzle) on an old body will not exhibit the same atomization improvement(s), but will still function.

 

[JackEb]

I had no trouble installing the 2024 Evolution trigger into my Infinity. Absolutely replaces the progressive geometry of the original trigger and back lever with a linear movement - This brush will remain this way. Pretty sure AirbrushKid has his set up this way, too.

Warrick touched on compatibility between new and old in one of the recent introduction videos. The head and nozzle pieces are 100% compatible as far as fit. The new 2024 body is designed to allow for more air flow through the body feeding the new head and nozzle. For this reason, using the new parts (especially the new nozzle) on an old body will not exhibit the same atomization improvement(s), but will still function.

View attachment 93032

Thank you for the clarification Dave.
I bought the Kyiv and Giraldez brushes earlier this year so I was curious about the triggers and the smoother trigger feel, I'm not so concerned about the nozzle set up. I have the infinity 2024 arriving today (yay) so that will be my 'ultimate' detail brush.

 

[GREAT]

I had no trouble installing the 2024 Evolution trigger into my Infinity. Absolutely replaces the progressive geometry of the original trigger and back lever with a linear movement - This brush will remain this way. Pretty sure AirbrushKid has his set up this way, too.

Warrick touched on compatibility between new and old in one of the recent introduction videos. The head and nozzle pieces are 100% compatible as far as fit. The new 2024 body is designed to allow for more air flow through the body feeding the new head and nozzle. For this reason, using the new parts (especially the new nozzle) on an old body will not exhibit the same atomization improvement(s), but will still function.

View attachment 93032

Hello DAVE, I would like to ask a question, is the the trigger s delayed response just due to the trigger design? Isn't it related to the design of the matching between the front needle and the nozzle? The reason I think so is that in the old infinity, the 0.15 configuration will be more sensitive than the 0.2 configuration（Many people around me have reported this situation. I don’t know if it’s our misunderstanding.）If it were just because of the trigger, I would be bold enough to buy new trigger accessories.

 

[DaveG]

Hello DAVE, I would like to ask a question, is the the trigger s delayed response just due to the trigger design? Isn't it related to the design of the matching between the front nozzle and the nozzle? The reason I think so is that in the old infinity, the 0.15 configuration will be more sensitive than the 0.2 configuration（Many people around me have reported this situation. I don’t know if it’s our misunderstanding.）If it were just because of the trigger, I would be bold enough to buy new trigger accessories.

This is a can of worms that I am not sure I want to get too far into depth on right now. I did write about the trigger on my FB page... The jist of it is that there is no actual "lag", just a perceived delay by some users. The back lever on the Infinity is designed to be progressive - very small movements at first, followed by larger movements further in the trigger draw. If the paint sample and air pressure are not well matched, initiation of paint flow may be slow due to the very small needle movements in the beginning of the stroke. The same can be done on many brushes by using a too thick paint sample, or too low air pressure for the sample... it just seems more pronounced on the Infinity because of the very small needle movements...

 

[GREAT]

This is a can of worms that I am not sure I want to get too far into depth on right now. I did write about the trigger on my FB page... The jist of it is that there is no actual "lag", just a perceived delay by some users. The back lever on the Infinity is designed to be progressive - very small movements at first, followed by larger movements further in the trigger draw. If the paint sample and air pressure are not well matched, initiation of paint flow may be slow due to the very small needle movements in the beginning of the stroke. The same can be done on many brushes by using a too thick paint sample, or too low air pressure for the sample... it just seems more pronounced on the Infinity because of the very small needle movements...

Yes, this is indeed a complex issue. Thanks for your answer DAVE!

 

[DaveG]

Yes, this is indeed a complex issue. Thanks for your answer DAVE!

the real magic is between the nozzle cap, and nozzle. The needle just gets to help direct the business.

 

[Drastion]

I had no trouble installing the 2024 Evolution trigger into my Infinity. Absolutely replaces the progressive geometry of the original trigger and back lever with a linear movement - This brush will remain this way. Pretty sure AirbrushKid has his set up this way, too.

Warrick touched on compatibility between new and old in one of the recent introduction videos. The head and nozzle pieces are 100% compatible as far as fit. The new 2024 body is designed to allow for more air flow through the body feeding the new head and nozzle. For this reason, using the new parts (especially the new nozzle) on an old body will not exhibit the same atomization improvement(s), but will still function.

View attachment 93032

Ok I thought you said the new trigger did not fit. It was in a tread so your answer was probably directed to someone else not me asking if the new Evo trigger worked in a old infinity.


Maybe the part I got confused about was they said the head was larger. So they must have been referring to using old and new parts together.

 

[Drastion]

I have been experimenting more. Seems to only way to get a more responsive trigger with stock parts. Restricting the upwards move ment of the crescent arm does work. Since it really alters the way the two parts interact.

This does limit the total travel of the trigger. So it is not great if you have a Kyiv like I do. Without the opening you would have a tough time flushing the airbrush. Plus if you are already am used to the trigger action. This really ramps up how much moving the trigger alters the paint flow. So it may throw someone off who is used to the original action.