For Every Airbrush Artist!

Ready to get involved? Register for free and you won't see any google advertising!

Register

Riddle me this!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Airbrushes' started by Rob Afton, May 12, 2018.


  1. Rob Afton

    Rob Afton Young Tutorling

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    South Florida
    Ok first lemme say that, as far as experience goes I’ve been airbrushshing for about 5 years now as a hobby, I mainly do models and gaming miniatures. I started on a masters G-22 it’s a Chinese 30.00 airbrush with 3 dif nozzle/needle combos, I also bought an iwata HP-C+ shortly after the masters but didn’t use it, because my masters was doing great work and the parts are more expensive for my Iwata. This g-22 finally broke 4 years of hard work, it was in bad shape near the end, Teflon tape at the nozzle worn rubber seals, etc.... the iwata dont use rubber as will all quality airbrushes. Here is my issue. The iwata sprays much more paint, Even when only pulling back 1mm I can get much thinner lines with the .3mm iwata than with the masters and it feels like a quality machine. If I was doing traditional illustration, it would be great far superior to the masters G-22. But when it comes to what I need it for laying down highly atomized transparent layers of paint on models only 32mm - 6cm tall. The cheap airbrush wins! I don’t know if a setting is off on the iwata, or what but as of now the iwata doesn’t get used much and it’s getting beat by the the cheap masters G-22. This has halted my plans of buying HANS “infinity” and “evolution” basically I can’t find a reason to not use the masters, it dose what the iwata does and in addition can lay down dusty light transparent layers, something the iwata doesn’t seem to do it’s always much more paint, sure it also fades a line any airbrush does but the lightest end of the stroke with the iwata is like the stroke full blast on the masters. I am thinking this maybe learning to use a cheap airbrush first maybe but I can’t seem to get the HP-c+ to lay light coats. Is this just the brush as in that’s how it’s designed?
    Also paint in HP-c plus needs to be thinner than in master G-22. It’s worth it to note that everyone that I know that bought expensive brushes aren’t able to do what I am doing with my cheap airbrush. They have similar promance to the my iwata basically weather it’s a small line or fat line it doesn’t matter they all spray the same transparency amount in a faded stroke with AB. I am prob not explain this correctly but the neo and HP-CS eclipse spray like my G-22, it should since the G22 is a Knock off eclipse.
    That’s what I mean buy is it just the brush. As in this brush was designed to spray a lot of highly fluid paint, were as my G22 is a shader brush?
    I’ve included a Wip and finished figure so you can see the texhnic I am referring to of what I call glazing with the Air brush... these both couldn’t be done with my iwata, at least not by me, yet with the masters it’s like one hour of work. Any help or ideas ?

    Attached Files:

    Ricky Spanish and jord001 like this.
  2. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    9,556
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    In my humble opinion it comes down to the right tool for the job and with each individual user there will be a whole new set of variables that make their experience different. (Different paint/pressure/weather)
    If the masters is doing what you want then that’s great, but there’s a chance that your next masters will behave differently.

    @DaveG will be the best person to explain what makes different brushes of the same needle/nozzle spray differently.

    As an example of how ‘non logical’ things can be.
    I can spray Createx illustration straight from the bottle with my Iwata CM side feed .18 —— the exact same bottle of paint won’t spray without being reduced in my CM-B .23.
    Logic says if it sprays through the .18, then it should almost pour out of a .23 but it doesn’t - why ? Who knows! I work with it not against it, if that’s how they want to roll the so be it lol
    jord001, doc1, HellBird and 2 others like this.
  3. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    3,105
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    If it works for you then use it. Kinda like what jackie said.
    That said I can say this much
    My china special point zero ,acts similarly by nature to your g22. Its naturally a shading brush.
    Compared to my procon boy quality brush.
    Now I can get the procon boy to work the same, albeit at lower air pressures and higher reduction than the point zero. So i would guess you can learn to get along with the iwata too....of course reduction , pressure and everything will be different.
    The gap between the nozzle and air cap on my procon boy is much tighter so id guess it gives higher surface pressure with less volume and pressure than the china piece. Also under magnification the nozzle of the china piece is flat on the tip, as compared to the procon boy. Which i believe helps it lose some detail ability and contributes to it putting out less paint.
    In any case, they act different but i can make the procon boy do the same fine job of light shading the point zero does (and better), the point zero hits its limits with the detail and cant do what the procon boy does.

    Im sure a new g22 wont act the same as one that old and wore out, but I have a feeling it will still be a similar deal....?
    jord001, doc1, HellBird and 1 other person like this.
  4. DaveG

    DaveG Detail Decepticon! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    2,075
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    West Virginia
    I am gonna suggest that the "issue" (if I would really call it one) is that you are trying to use one brush like another. I know the HP-C well, and it is a brush that will outperform the G22, G48, and all the other clones out there - provided you use it the way it wants to be used ;). My guess is that if you worked on lowering your air pressures, or worked on your paint reduction, you would see the HP-C come around. Now, it may not be necessary for you to put in the time to try to figure the brush out, if the G22 does what you need it to do... I have many of the inexpensive imports, and I have a good few more expensive brushes as well... they all work, and some very, very well indeed - a long as I put in the time to understand what makes them happy.
    jord001, doc1, HellBird and 1 other person like this.
  5. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    3,105
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    Almost forgot, don't forget distance. Quality piece is likely to have a tighter , more controlled spray cone. So your distance will of course change as well.
    jord001 likes this.
  6. Rob Afton

    Rob Afton Young Tutorling

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    South Florida
    Wow all this was really helpful! I had a feeling all air brushes may spray different, I can’t get my g-44 to spray at all. So that’s definitely true and I didn’t even think of using different pressure in the iwata to try and get the same effect. I had just become so ingrained in the process as a finite thing. I will continue to try and get used to my iwata it truly is a superior tool, and feels great in the hand. Plus I had just revived a Replacement G-22 after writing this and it doesn’t quite spray the same plus the nozzle cap seal isn’t sealing, they sending a replacement. But I think when the time is right I may try and demo an infinity cr before I buy it that brush is more a want then a need, it’s the brush used by one of my fav painters, if it works for him, it should work for me. I will be more open to learning curves with new equipment! I shoulda just learned on the iwata, I would be better off now. Part of it is the care, I can abuse the master for at least 2 years for 30.00 that’s one hell of a bargain. I gotta treat the iwata with much more respect, it gets cleaned and needle wiped every time I spray, the G-22 I slack on that to ever few uses. This was a really good response! I would post more of my work but it’s just not as impressive as some of the work I’ve seen on this forum! I am painting 3d models. People on here paint on 2d paper or canvas and make it look 3d!
    I do understand the skills required to do what i do is minimal imo and illustrations are the real deal!
    jord001 and Robbyrockett2 like this.
  7. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    3,105
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    I dig the work! A lot of my paint experience is on life size figures. Idk if I would want to even attempt little tiny ones. Post it up man.
    jord001 likes this.
  8. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    9,556
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    Definitely post your work up. We all enjoy seeing what others do with their paint.
    Illustration and realism may be the holy grail for many, but for some it’s all about having fun and enjoying the end result
    jord001, basepaint and DaveG like this.
  9. basepaint

    basepaint Air-Valve Autobot! Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    6,313
    Likes Received:
    6,555
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    west virgina
    Post those baby's up,I post fishing lures I paint and some of them are only a few inches long,its all art in the long run!
    jord001 likes this.
  10. SiRoxx

    SiRoxx Party Boy UK Style Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    3,399
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Sounds like the question has been answered, so that’s great. Definitely post up some of your work. It’s great to have some diversity on the forum and there are already a few model painters here. I don’t paint models myself, but love seeing them!
    jord001 likes this.
  11. Rob Afton

    Rob Afton Young Tutorling

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    South Florida
    In that case I will definitely post more.
    Yes my question is answered. I was thinking .3mm = .3mm and it’s toataly not the case. Like you guys said there are so many factors and with just the few suggestions I am feeling much more confident with my iwata! I like the comment “work with not against it”
    Thank you guys again!
    jord001, SiRoxx and JackEb like this.
  12. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    9,556
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    lol
    It’s all about finding the airbrush’s happy place and joining them there.
    Not trying to force them to join you in yours :)
    Robbyrockett2, HellBird and DaveG like this.
  13. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    126
    If I had a Rottweiler that wanted to go left when I wanted to go right, I would go left and lump it.

    We've all had the fights with the brush when starting out but once we finally give in to it then they start to want to please us:)
  14. Robbyrockett2

    Robbyrockett2 Air-Valve Autobot!

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    3,105
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Jacksonville, NC
    I think these advices work with wives as well :)
    JackEb, HellBird and Jonathon like this.
  15. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Fortunately I have a little tact and deliberately left that bit out, Rottweiler was as close as I coukd get to wifes I've had without having to demean any of them:laugh:
  16. JackEb

    JackEb The Dragon Hunter Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    9,556
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Mt Barker, South Australia
    :laugh::laugh: Rottweiler works ! my partner often refers to me as a pitbull . . . get an idea in my head and wont let go until i'm well and truely done
    HellBird, Robbyrockett2 and Malky like this.
  17. Malky

    Malky Pencil Pushing Protagonist Very Likeable!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2016
    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Well all my X's were happy to let go, but just so they could sink the teeth in another limb and do even more damagelol
    HellBird likes this.
  18. Jurien72

    Jurien72 Have Airbrush - Will Travel!

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2017
    Messages:
    2,824
    Likes Received:
    2,775
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Somewhere in the U.S.
    A word of caution: Dont get caught in the trap of "The Infinity .15 is better". I own an Infinity and an Evolution, and I totally love them. But for modeling work (specifically laying down broad spray patterns) they may not work the way you want them to. You might be better off with a Badger Krome or something? Or if you REALLY want that Infinity (yes, its a beautiful airbrush!) get the 2 in 1 with the .4 needle and start with that?
    Now the reason I say this is I've seen many comments from modelers that werent so thrilled with the Infinity. Its like using a screwdriver on a bolt head- its just not designed for that kind of work. Hope this helps!
    JackEb and Robbyrockett2 like this.

Share This Page