Scale modelers - Micron?

[Ty89m]

I've been drooling over the Microns for a while now, and think I'm finally ready to snag one. I'm a scale modeler, so it's likely overkill, and worst case scenario I can sell it off if need be. Also been eyeing the PS-771 as it's certainly more reasonably priced, but still leaning towards the Micron. That said, I'm between the CM-C Plus and the newer Takumi, as I can get the Takumi for a fair bit less that the CM-C Plus. Are there any scale modelers that run either of these brushes (or the very least, a Micron with either the .23 or .18 needle?)

Thanks!

 

[JackEb]

disclaimer: I don't paint models !
Personally I'd go for a 'general' brush AND a detail brush. the general one will allow you to quickly do the sealer & base coats on the models and any scenic accessories you use. the detail brush, well it will do great detail.
the creos brushes are proving themselves a very good alternative to the usual name brands.

PS266 for the sealers/base coats
PS771 for the detail.
If you live in the US then spray gunner has some great prices and speedy delivery and a great reputation with customer service.
with those two brushes you'd have everything you'd need.

just remember, you'll have a learning curve with any new tool and it looks easy when you see all the videos out there, be prepared for initial frustration, BUT if you battle through the frustration you'll add a whole new dimension to your models.
we are here if and when you need help.

 

[Ty89m]

disclaimer: I don't paint models !
Personally I'd go for a 'general' brush AND a detail brush. the general one will allow you to quickly do the sealer & base coats on the models and any scenic accessories you use. the detail brush, well it will do great detail.
the Oreos brushes are proving themselves a very good alternative to the usual name brands.

PS266 for the sealers/base coats
PS771 for the detail.
If you live in the US then spray gunner has some great prices and speedy delivery and a great reputation with customer service.
with those two brushes you'd have everything you'd need.

just remember, you'll have a learning curve with any new tool and it looks easy when you see all the videos out there, be prepared for initial frustration, BUT if you battle through the frustration you'll add a whole new dimension to your models.
we are here if and when you need help.

Thanks for the reply! I should have prefaced my initial post with this - but I already have a HP-CS, HP-C+, and PS-290. I agree though, Spraygunner is top tier for sure, and the best option for the Creos/Mr Hobby brushes.

I just have an itch for a Micron, and I know the PS-771 won't scratch that long-term...my curiosity is getting the best of me in regards to the Micron ha! From a value perspective the Creos is tough to argue with though, no doubt about that.

 

[JackEb]

Well if you have an itch, scratch it !!
the tukami Brushes seem to be well regarded,

 

[Ty89m]

Well if you have an itch, scratch it !!
the tukami Brushes seem to be well regarded,

Indeed, just need to decide how much I value the MAC valve and slightly larger needle - seems the hobby paints I use might jive better with a .23 setup, but a lot of folks are running PS-771 w/ .18 needle and having great success.

Takumi saves me some coin though, so leaning heavily in that direction. Either way, I appreciate your input!

 

[JackEb]

Get an external Mac valve. Grex do a brilliant one, attach it to your hose and you then have fine control over all your brushes. I have had Iwata and H & S external Mac controllers and the Grex quick connect Mac valve is the best one out there in my opinion.
you just need to get multiple male connectors to put on your existing brushes !

 

[Ty89m]

Get an external Mac valve. Grex do a brilliant one, attach it to your hose and you then have fine control over all your brushes. I have had Iwata and H & S external Mac controllers and the Grex quick connect Mac valve is the best one out there in my opinion.
you just need to get multiple male connectors to put on your existing brushes !

Excellent - I'll get one ordered up this evening!

 

[Mr.Micron]

Micron .18 needs super fine pigment paint, Which depending on what type of models you are building will help with paint choices .
The .23 can handle most military model paint with simple reduction. Micron like to run at about 20 psi and lower.
Also is you want to save money https://spraygunner.com/ps770-gsi-creos-mr-airbrush-custom-0-18mm/ I use the head system on this one on my micron, It actually seems to hold up better then the IWATA head system. and more affordable on my pocket.

 

[Ty89m]

Micron .18 needs super fine pigment paint, Which depending on what type of models you are building will help with paint choices .
The .23 can handle most military model paint with simple reduction. Micron like to run at about 20 psi and lower.
Also is you want to save money https://spraygunner.com/ps770-gsi-creos-mr-airbrush-custom-0-18mm/ I use the head system on this one on my micron, It actually seems to hold up better then the IWATA head system. and more affordable on my pocket.

Thanks for the input - this is precisely what is complicating my decision on which to go with, as I have a feeling the slightly larger needle of the C will be a bit more forgiving with the paint I use (Tamiya solvent based acrylic/AK real color/Tamiya lacquer). Plus with the C, I have the option of converting to 0.18 if need be, but the Takumi saves me about $100, and I like the more compact size.

Good tip on using the Procon 771 parts with the Micron, sounds like a lot of people go this route!

 

[DaveG]

I have several CM-C+'s. CM-B's, CM-SB's, as well as Olympos versions... There is nothing that they will do that the PS771 can't keep up with. The differences between all of them comes down to less than a few thousands of an inch on some specs regarding nozzle, and nozzle cap. Greater than 90% of the parts are common between them all. The Creos uses the same needle taper as the .18 and .23 Microns - at least anything V2 and newer on the Microns - the originals (V1) had longer tapers. I do prefer the Takumi for its shorter length trigger to tip. I would also have no reservations in switching out the head for a Creos number, as I find them to be just a tad more forgiving in use.

 

[2Diverse]

This is a curious dilemma. Not to offend you, this is how I read your posts. You seem to think that the CM-C+ will fit your needs better than the CM Takumi but the Takumi is $100 less although it will probably not work well for what you want to do. I have two suggestions.

Although I have not tried I believe you could swap out the .23 CM-C+ needle/nozzle/head assembly with Creos .18 parts. DaveG would know if this is possible and, if so, he should be able to tell you what you need for the conversion. It would save you a lot of money instead of buying the CM Takumi.

Now to add to the mix and give you some food for thought. You may want to take a look at the Eclipse Takumi. It has a .35 needle/nozzle/head assembly. This should be good for most all model paints. If you add about $100 to the $100 you'd save buying the CM Takumi you could buy both the CM Takumi and the Eclipse Takumi. Use the Eclipse for most of your model work and the CM Takumi for detail work. This way both brushes should feel the same in your hand.

 

[erwin de pan]

2Diverse has a good point.
Creos has no .23 head set and 1 from iwatta costs 200 euro + 30 euro needle.
The Eclipse SBS Takumi costs 189 euros. You then have 2 working airbrushes.
CM-SB Takumi + Eclipse Takumi = 674 euros.
PS-771 + Eclipse Takumi = 488 euros.
Another option is the Iwata Micron CM-C2 NOT the + version that costs 415 euros.
Have the prices of https://www.lion-art.nl/Iwata#filter:6e8e3b5a0839948061e5f7a54903690c here in NL.

 

[SiRoxx]

Another view point is if you want a Micron then go for it. Once you’ve gotten used to relearning reducing the paint for the brush you won’t be disappointed with any of them. The MAC valve doesn’t really make enough difference for me to worry about it. I have a CM-C+ and rarely use the MAC because my main regulator is nearby. The other options mentioned are also great suggestions, so at least you have options .

 

[Lance Whitford]

I am a modeller and use the paints you mentioned with my PS-771. Thre are no problems using any of those paints with the 771. I use tamiya X20A and laquer thinners or sometimes Mr leveling thinners and have excellent results. The only problem I can recall was when I accidentally mixed Tamiya X20A thinners with AK paint in the cup. It all turned to a thick jelly so I had to strip the brush down and clear it all out. The removeable head system on Microns and the Ps-771 are great when it comes to cleaning out after a bit of misadventure. I also have 3 Chinese Brushes fitted with PS-771 heads and needles and these work really well too.

 

[DominicL]

I know I'm late to the party but I do airbrush scale models. Small ho slot car bodies, 1/64-1/87th scale. You don't men

I've been drooling over the Microns for a while now, and think I'm finally ready to snag one. I'm a scale modeler, so it's likely overkill, and worst case scenario I can sell it off if need be. Also been eyeing the PS-771 as it's certainly more reasonably priced, but still leaning towards the Micron. That said, I'm between the CM-C Plus and the newer Takumi, as I can get the Takumi for a fair bit less that the CM-C Plus. Are there any scale modelers that run either of these brushes (or the very least, a Micron with either the .23 or .18 needle?)

Thanks!

I know I'm late to the party but I do airbrush scale models. I airbrush small ho scale slot car bodies that range in size from 1/64 down to 1/87th scale. ( they vary to fit the chassis. Artistic license I guess!) You don't mention what scale or type of scale models you airbrush, so take my comments with a grain of salt. Unless your are airbrushing details like free hand graphics or miniatures, I'm not sure a Micron or 771 will make your airbrushing any easier. I had, used for a while, then sold a CM-SB Micron. I don't do any free hand detail painting so the Micron was over kill for my painting chores. Plus, being heavy handed, I cringed every time I had to put the needle back after a deep cleaning! Getting coverage, even on the small car bodies I paint, meant me cranking up the pressure and spraying a little drier than I like. I sold the Micron and have no trouble doing multi color paint jobs with a larger tip size and finger control. I like my side fed eclipse with .5mm tip combo. If you airbrush any scale autos, take a look at the following micro airbrushing video.

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The fellow uses a siphon fed Eclipse followed by what looks to be an HP-B gravity feed for the smaller details. Towrds the middle end, he does a free hand 1/24 scale hood graphic free hand. If this is the type of airbrushing you do, go for the micron for the details. It will make the detail painting easier in that you can get finer lines a little further from your work. Or, get the .2 setup for your HP-C plus and save your money for more models! You'll have everything covered ( pun intended! ) with the PS 290. Eclipse and the HP-C plus w. .2 setup.

 

[Ty89m]

Sorry for the late reply everyone, been a busy few days! Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's input thus far. I'm still contemplating which direction to jump, but hoping to pin a new brush purchase down soon.

As far as which scale models, I do 1/35 armor, as well as 1/32 and 1/48 aircraft, and do a lot of pre and post shading as well as free hand camo and mottling etc, so having something with a bit more precision and control is what I'm after - especially for German camo on 1/48 kits.

It's hard to argue with the pricing on the PS-771, plus I'd probably grab a PS-270 as well to round things out - but that Micron itch will need to be scratched at some point, as I'd love to try one. Easy enough to sell it off down the line if I find it doesn't end up working out.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Ty89m]

Just an update - opted to give the Takumi (Micron) a go. Got a nice deal on it, so figured I'd just take the plunge. I'll likely grab a PS-270 as well (I'm becoming a bit of an airbrush hoarder...) and I'm sure the PS-771 will find its way to me sooner or later. I'm looking forward to seeing how she runs with some of my favorite model paints!

Thanks again for all the help/input everyone!

 

[JackEb]

Just an update - opted to give the Takumi (Micron) a go. Got a nice deal on it, so figured I'd just take the plunge. I'll likely grab a PS-270 as well (I'm becoming a bit of an airbrush hoarder...) and I'm sure the PS-771 will find its way to me sooner or later. I'm looking forward to seeing how she runs with some of my favorite model paints!

Thanks again for all the help/input everyone!

Congrats on the Micron, let us know what you think. just remember, Microns like nice thin paint

 

[Nessus]

As far as which scale models, I do 1/35 armor, as well as 1/32 and 1/48 aircraft, and do a lot of pre and post shading as well as free hand camo and mottling etc, so having something with a bit more precision and control is what I'm after - especially for German camo on 1/48 kits.

I'm late to this, but as a scale modeler who owns several airbrushes: the Eclipse would be the better option for what you do.

The thing about Microns is they're fussier than the Eclipses. They're much picker about paint type/brand and reduction, and less simple to maintain. All parts for it are much more expensive too, so there's a certain pressure to be more precious with it. The Eclipse line (including the Takumi) is super versitile and super forgiving, while also being super capable. A micron has higher detail ability, but that comes at the cost of being more dificult to learn on, and much more picky about paint types/brands and thinning ratios.

They do have a better upper-end for precision and finer atomization, that's definitely true, but they also have a higher low end for dealing with thicker paints and/or paints with larger pigments.

It's a beautiful piece of kit, but for a modeller its NOT a liner upgrade: it's a more specialized side-grade.

The Eclipse is also already so well capable in terms of precision and atomization that the threshold for when/where the benefits of a Micron really come into play is much higher than you'd think. A micron's level of precision doesn't actually become needed unless you're looking to do extensive fine freehand work on figures. Like if you're looking to do high-level realism with facial skin tones, or are looking to do advanced freehand shading on small figures, that sort of thing.

If you're wanting to do "golden demon" level gaming mini paint schemes with just an airbrush, or you're trying to freehand a Steve Wang or Sceamin' Mad George style movie monsters at scale, those are the sorts of jobs you'd want/need a Micron for. Freehand camo or shading on aircraft or tanks won't even approach the limits of an Eclipse. For those jobs the only difference will be that the Micron will be fussier.

I have an Eclipse (CS) and a Micron (SB-V2), an HP-TH, a Paasche VL and H, and a Badger SOTAR. The Micron and the SOTAR are hanger queens 99% of time. The Eclipse is my "does nearly everything" workhorse, the Paasches are relateve trash, and the TH is overspecialized in the opposite direction to the micron (only useful for really big stuff). The Micron's relative practical disadvantages mean it's not worth using unless I really need it's special abilities.

 

[Electric Cat Dude]

I've been drooling over the Microns for a while now, and think I'm finally ready to snag one. I'm a scale modeler, so it's likely overkill, and worst case scenario I can sell it off if need be. Also been eyeing the PS-771 as it's certainly more reasonably priced, but still leaning towards the Micron. That said, I'm between the CM-C Plus and the newer Takumi, as I can get the Takumi for a fair bit less that the CM-C Plus. Are there any scale modelers that run either of these brushes (or the very least, a Micron with either the .23 or .18 needle?)

Thanks!

It’s been so long that most airbrushers have no idea what the Japanese developed the Micron matched head system for.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, for extreme and repeatable fine line work, most illustrators, photo retouchers and fine artists were using a turbo airbrush. And the only model available for that was the Paasche AB. These brushes did (and still do) offer the most repeatable fine line capability, but they were often fugitive, temperamental and fussy, requiring constant tuning and downtime. This frustrated a lot of artists as many are not mechanically inclined and don’t have the patience to put up with that when doing their work. The Japanese airbrush brand Olympos initially developed the Micron matched head systems using the more orthodox Burdick-style spray regulator technology, but carefully refined several aspects, including nozzle bore design and needle tip geometries. The end product offered considerably more reliable, fine line capability out of an airbrush that was easy to maintain use compared to the Paasche AB turbo. But this is true only for using thinned water-based mediums like watercolors and gouaches, which were the default media for airbrush illustration and photo retouching in those days.

Cut to current day, where the airbrush is almost never used for commercial illustration anymore, and has been relegated to artisan and craft use, with people buying microns and attempting to use them with heavy acrylics or lacquers and enamels for painting figurines or auto detailing only to be frustrated with their performance in these areas. This isn’t the brush’s fault; it is the operator’s. These pains quickly clog up fine nozzles and spray regulators, hamstringing the brush’s capabilities for fine detail. This is one of the cheap reasons that I advise people looking to buy an airbrush for this purpose to not purchase one with a nozzle bore diameter less than .3 mm if a person still struggles with fine control of the airbrush, this is an issue that can only be resolved with practice. Buying an airbrush of a finer nozzle will not help here. The good news here is that Iwata’s Eclipse series or the H&S Evolution/Infinity/Ultra airbrushes will do just about everything that you want for model, painting and crafts, all while being far more reliable and a joy to use in these roles when painting with other than thin water base paints.