Thinning questions...

T

Tull

Guest
I'm sure these, or very similar questions have been asked before, but I always like to ask my own in case advice has changed or my situation is slightly different to others.

As I mentioned a couple of days ago on here I've been getting erratic quality results when changing paint colours, after cleaning the brush through. What I'v discovered is: I haven't been blowing enough cleaner through.

To be frank, and pardon my language, this is a right pain in the arse as I'd sooner be spending my time painting rather than cleaning. To ease this situation I've decided to try thinning the paint, although this is 'pre-mixed' paint, or at least air brush ready, thinning it down seems logical.

I know it's pretty stupid to ask how much I should thin my paint as the make, the thinner, the conditions, the item being painted and the effect wanted will all make a difference. But how much should I think my paint?!

Just as a guideline, and before I go and waste a load of paint which I don't want to do, where should I start? 50/50? 60/40? 90/10? You see my problem, I have no idea what I'm doing hahaha!

Any quick advice you can give may prove to be invaluable and I may love you forever.

(The paint is Vallejo and the thinner is the generic stuff with the black and white label everyone seems to sell. Ooo, and I bought some Flow Enhancer (or something like that), how much of that should I add?)

Many thanks you lovely, lovey people.
 
I'd probably start at 50/50... what you are looking for is the consistency of milk or skim milk. Thats a good rule of thumb to go by regardless of what paint you are using.
 
This is what I suggest on learning a paint system
1 drop paint 1 drop reducer @ 35 psi if you find that you get spidering they lower the pressure 10PSI then 1 PSI at a time after that until you get a good line.
If you are getting speckles or a lot of tip dry at 1:1 the add another drop of reducer.
 
Mr.Micron beat me to it (again, i'm getting slow in my old age lol)

using different brands or mixing brands will give you headaches, they will either chemically react badly with each other or you'll get inconsistant results so pick a brand and learn it, there will likely be headaches but thats all part of the learning.

using a consistant base 'recipe' will help you understand how your paint/brush/PSI behave.

always start with the same 'recipe' and adjust accordingly. What works for me here in Australia may not work well where you are.

Create a test sheet.... Date it .. you will likely get different results Winter / Summer
write the ratio and PSI on the sheet and then spray a test patch alongside it.
Change the ratio, write it down on the sheet....... spray a test patch alongside it.
change the PSI, write it down.....spray a test patch.

Its a bit like cooking...... you start with a basic cookie recipe and tweak it as needed.....
 
Pre mixing reducer (you reduce paint, reduce the viscosity, thinners are used during the manufacturing and are part of a paint) is a waste of time. The viscosity will change as the reducer evaporates so the viscosity will be different tomorrow than today. So you are back in the same place again. Learn your brushes, learn your paints. Much better in the long run.
 
Mr.Micron beat me to it (again, i'm getting slow in my old age lol)

using different brands or mixing brands will give you headaches, they will either chemically react badly with each other or you'll get inconsistant results so pick a brand and learn it, there will likely be headaches but thats all part of the learning.

using a consistant base 'recipe' will help you understand how your paint/brush/PSI behave.

always start with the same 'recipe' and adjust accordingly. What works for me here in Australia may not work well where you are.

Create a test sheet.... Date it .. you will likely get different results Winter / Summer
write the ratio and PSI on the sheet and then spray a test patch alongside it.
Change the ratio, write it down on the sheet....... spray a test patch alongside it.
change the PSI, write it down.....spray a test patch.

Its a bit like cooking...... you start with a basic cookie recipe and tweak it as needed.....
Jackie I have been trying to figure a way to send some shine your way it makes you ninja fast:D
 
Mr.Micron beat me to it (again, i'm getting slow in my old age lol)

using different brands or mixing brands will give you headaches, they will either chemically react badly with each other or you'll get inconsistant results so pick a brand and learn it, there will likely be headaches but thats all part of the learning.

using a consistant base 'recipe' will help you understand how your paint/brush/PSI behave.

always start with the same 'recipe' and adjust accordingly. What works for me here in Australia may not work well where you are.

Create a test sheet.... Date it .. you will likely get different results Winter / Summer
write the ratio and PSI on the sheet and then spray a test patch alongside it.
Change the ratio, write it down on the sheet....... spray a test patch alongside it.
change the PSI, write it down.....spray a test patch.

Its a bit like cooking...... you start with a basic cookie recipe and tweak it as needed.....
JackEb and MrMicron both have great ideas for learning paint systems. Was thinking of doing basically that "scientific approach" to get a mapping of how the paints behave at different levels of reduction and pressure. On all my brushes... Eventually. Will take a good deal of effort, paper, and paint but it might be time well spent.
You also brought up a good point on not mixing brands. Maybe that caused some of my past difficulties. I got a set of Badger Air Opaque primaries with my Badger Anthem 155 back in January. Didn't think much of it until I was dealing with my new H&S Infinity this past weekend.:whistling: Using just the Createx Illustrator and reducer made things a lot simpler and more consistent.
@Tull- You may want to get whatever thinner/reducer Vallejo makes to thin out their paints instead of "what everybody sells".
 
I use vallego paints. With my badgers i use 1 drop of paint to 4 drops reducer. It seems to work well for me here in missouri but do some test sprays. I got to that reduction formula using the system mr.micron told you about.
 
It's a lot of reducing, 25% to 75%, with a paint that says it's ready to spray on the bottle. But I'm having awful results without doing anything.

All you advice has been ingested and I'll go do some testing today. I did a tiny test yesterday and I have to say the cleaning was SOO much easier, that's my biggest headache so I'm hoping for good times ahead!

So, what is this Flow Enhancer? Is it just thinner or a different chemical altogether? And is there any point using both? What does it actually do?


Many thanks so far.
 
When a product states it is ready to spray it also has a listing of what it needs to spray through for best results.
Here is a link to Createx's recommendation for their product https://createxcolors.com/pdf/auto-air-illustration-wicked-hard-surface-application-guide_030118.pdf

At the very bottom of the first page has this statement.
"Exact reduction ratios are not required; what is important is atomization. Add enough 4012 High Performance
Reducer to achieve optimum atomization with each color."
Meaning while it is ready to spray it all depends on what you're trying to spray it out of.

Flow enhancer usually helps slow tip dry which means it also slows drying times.At least that is my experience when using any type of it.
 
Model air and model color are totally two different animals. Yes model air can be sprayed out of the bottle with a .5 needle or larger. Model color cannot. I agree with Mr. M on the flow enhancer. Just play around with your reduction. What works well for one wont work for someone else. I was just giving you a base at where i start. And everyday will be different than the previous day. Enjoy it. Its actually fun.
 
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