Transparent paint question

M

MINUS Stl

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I ordered a few AA opaque/semi paints last week and just got them the mail. I had order Semi-opaqu Deep Red (4207), but received Transparent Traffic Red (4235) instead. It turns out 4207 was discontinued receipt from TCP.

Anyway, is there anything I can do use what I received and darken the transparent red and also make it more opaque?

It will actually be used for a splatter effect on a project.

Thanks
 
Might try to see if someone has some sitting on a shelf thay would sell? or try adding some opaque red to the transparent to make it semi transparent?
the more opaque you add to it the less transparent it will be, but you should get the effect you want.
 
Thats a tough one- ultimately if you got sent a trans red instead of a opaque red I would send a request for the money back rather than a business guessing what you want if something is no longer continued, its common courtesy and perhaps that particular business needs some training in customer service, I say this because if they new anything about the lines they are selling or airbrushing they would never replace replace a opaque with a transparent, especially in red. If you ask for a Marsbar and a shop says here a Snickers is good enough for you, that Snickers is gonna get rammed where the sun don't shine on that particular shop owner because I wanted a MarsBar LOL, many other colors you can of course get away with it by adding in some white, red obviously not as much but you could try (If you plan to use it anyway) mixing some grey with the red, it will subdue the red a bit, dirty it up but it reduces it going pink a heck of a lot, follow that up with the pure transparent red again and you will get an opaque acting red out of that transparent but as you want to splatter it on, maybe a bit hard..Perhaps try just spattering the trans red and if ya droplets/splatter are big enough to the point of being proud of the surface, it may provide a rich enough red just with the transparent..Good luck :)
 
When you placed your order was the Company advertising the paint you ordered? it so you have them for misrepresentation!
Yet again, as will all new people here you havn't filled out for personal details se we have no way of knowing where you are!
Different countries have different rules but if it was me I would be straight on the pone and asking WTF! I would tell them the paint was ordered in good faith and you want what they offered to sell not a replacement! I would lay it on thick that you have a customer waiting for this job and because of their incompetence you will have to face the customer and possibly a penalty so what are they go do about it?
If that particular paint has been discontinued they must have an alternative and also I would push for some freebees!
The actual problem is not easy to fix, you need a certain paint with certain properties and I doubt even a chemist can do alchemist tricks!
Visit the main AA site and see what paints are currently available, their list should be current.
 
Yer a big guilt trip and freebies LOL, shlda thought about that one first LOL, and once received, then abuse them some more LOL
 
I get loadsa free tee shirts and things from companies by being cheeky and saying "Well, you have put me in a very difficult position here but I'm sure you can spare maybe a freebee as compensation?" works wonders. if you don't ask you don't get ...... as a last resort there is always the social media threat! ;)
 
^....and that one works well, has got me paid by a bad commission debt once, they didn't seem to like my thoughts on that on their FB Page LOL..
 
Only ways to make paint opaque are mixing with an opaque or adding more pigment. We can't add more pigment so that only leaves 1 option. Mixing anything with titanium white will make it more opaque as well, but then of course it's gonna shift pink. As far as darkening it, you can add black blue or green to the red. I would contact tcp about it and demand a replacement or refund. Not your fault they cant keep track of their inventory, it's only their job. It's apples and oranges what they did and probably an honest mistake by someone who doesn't know paint from gum.
 
Out of interest immortal, why couldn't more pigment be added, as you were discussing yesterday about the structure of Titanium White, Cobalt red is another Opaque Pigment, in theory adding a pure cobalt red would in fact turn that transparent red more opaque as likely the transparent red pigment being used isn' cobalt red but a transparent red pigment?, add some extra binder in there also or some flow medium, shake and strain the buggery out of it, it may help..But kinda besides the point, wld still want me money back, shldnt have to fix things like that but if it was an emergency and ya needed that red fast I wld try anything..On another thought though on the OT, why not just buy some poster paint and splatter that on? Why does it need to be actual airbrush paint for that technique, anything will prob work..but GL
 
Well because who has the pigment only in hand? You would have to have the exact pigment they used (powder) and mix it to thicken it up. Not hard with acrylic tube paints but ab paint is another story. If you can get the pigments alone call me and we will start our own paint line haha. Adding an opaque paint isn't the same as adding raw pigment. It helps but the structure of the paint remains as you are essentially diluting the opaque paint you are adding to the transparent.
 
^ I think they may have already beaten us to it m8, pure pigment in various grinds and pigment type (IE What you can afford LOL) have been in artshops for prob bout the last 100 yrs at least LOL and is easier for me to buy than airbrush paint, Add a binder or flow medium as that usually contains binders anyway and yer you can easily make your own AB Paint, thats I'm sure how many of us started out..But no idea on ya last statement LOL, we prob both need more coffee LOL, but yer I agree adding pigment is a lot different to adding an opaque to the transparent, but it doesn't need much opaque to make that transparent opaque..Like when I turn a transparent red to opaque with grey and yes it can be done without it going pink I only use the actual red to adjust the grey not so much the other way around, so in essence it wld be like 10 ml grey and 3 ml or so red trans, so in essence its more adjusting the grey to be red LOL and won't over dilute the opaque, yer it may stretch it more into the realms of a semi-opaque but thats one step up from having a trans red ya may not use often..
 
I know you can buy pigment i used to make my own paint, just for mixing in createx or whatever I'd be worried wouldn't mesh with whatever binders and what have you they use.
 
Yer but thats the fun of experimenting as it will at times create that pile of shiz for you or let ya step over it with no smelly boots LOL. Some of the best effects I've seen over the years has come from trying something different or mixing some weird concotion together just to see what happens and then everyones doing it and it becomes a norm, you may change the red color a touch but pigments can go together without any major issues, we all do it everyday when we color mix. If you use an acrylic binder in an acrylic paint, I doubt there wld be a huge issue with your paint exploding or anything, no matter what they have used as a binder as theres not that many binders used, but ya may not even need the binder anyway, unless ya cause some binder seperation or breakdown by adding more pigment and that may happen but not sumthin I've come across, over reducing will do that and at times if I have overreduced and buggered up the binder, adding some more paint plus a flow medium really helps save the paint ya just buggered up LOL..But more so I am prob using the wrong term of binder, its as ya know not all about the paint vehicle but how that pigment remains dispersed in the paint..So perhaps instead of binder shld really use dispersent and the flow medium I use is designed to turn tube paints more viscous so they can be used for airbrushing or other uses, the flow medium although has binders etc in it, it also has the right viscosity and chemical dispersants in it to ensure the paint doesn't reclump..I'm sure ya also know that often paint manufacturers will deliberately use two pigment grind sizes or more for better adhesion, again all to do with those paint crystaline structures better "Sticking" together and it also saves on the amount of binder needed.
 
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The emulsion is what id be concerned with, mess up the balance and it will snap and fall apart. Certain pigments can only go in certain paint types. Waterbased are obviously suspended in water, whereas in urwthane they use acrylates to suspend it (fumed silica I think) so there is no universal pigment. Then you have to deal with the resins and alkaline (ammonia in waterbased) and blah blah blah. I think createx actually sells a pigment in a bottle already suspended in water to mix with the paints to make your own colors and intensify them. But I think it's only for the createx crap and nothing else. That points towards compatability issues to me. It had to be compatible with everything in the system down to the resins and reducers. It's a little more complicated then just dump mix and spray but I'm sure it can be done. I was told you can't spin variegated gold leaf but I can, so anything is possible, just a potential headache. Also lightfastness is an issue as well if you choose the wrong pigment color. Cadmium is primarily used because of its lightfastness and durability. Use a different blue and may lead to catastrophic results, at least in the automotive world. I'm off to bed my brain hurts now lol
 
Yer I would also be concerned with that aspect also in a lot of paint types-Those that have been through an emulsifying process, but this is mainly in the new brands as many want to keep that waterbased aspect to their paint, so one of the main reasons for emulsifying something is so you can mix that solvent or oil base with water (IE Bind two things that don't naturally bind). But not all paints are emulsified, and generally when they are you can still potentially physically break those bonds, even just by shaking paint to vigrously.

I do not believe the paint has to go through any radiation, heat or other process to form those bonds, I always thought it was the emulsifier they use as an ingredient that creates that bond between the two things that dont wanna be added together chemically, IE Shake the shz up LOL but may be wrong on that. So even if ya broke down the emulsifier (In that kind of brand paint) and if you know the emulsifier they use (Thats easy info to find out), sometimes, just sometimes you can indeed do a little home chemistry to save yourself as you may find other sources of those same solvents and it may just work, as I have with the Flow medium I use with my water based paint, if I used it in AA I no doubt would have an issue as chemicals used may not be compatible but personly have never had any issue with a Flow extender or Medium..I am more discussing the aspect or waterborne and based, obviously some paints do use additives that may have to go through an extra process to then create even stronger bonds etc

Also I dont understand what you mean by some pigment can only go in some paint? Ultimately pigment is pigment, besides maybe when discussing metallics as that's different, An oil painter is likely using the same pigment as I do, Etacs pigment is probably bought of the same supplier AA does for all we know, grind all that may change but its just pigment, obviously different uses will involve placing that same pigment in defferent resins or vehicles of distribution, so there is no reason you cant create more vibrant colors in any range if you buy pure pigment and again, its available in many artshops and of course if that''s what ya desire.

But what fun is life without finding out hey LOL...and my brain started hurting 30 odd years ago, still waiting for it too stop LOL..might go to bed to but its only Lunchtime :( LOL
 
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You have organic and inorganic pigments. Inorganic can be used in either, but organic cannot be used with anything that has a solvent. This is because the structure of conjugated double bonds is not chemically inert and can potentially react with other compounds. Inorganic or manmade is inert so no reactions.Think about it. We use bleach to turn our whites back into well whites from stains or in this case organic pigment stains lol. Bleach (solvent) breaks apart the double bonds, therefore weakening and eventually making the pigment dissapear.
 
There's very little organic pigment used these days, maybe by purists that grind it themselves but most pigment is synthesised in a lab to give the pigment the ability to handle the exact properties you mention, solvents, high heat, alkaline or acid environments etc etc. yer no doubt some solvents or acids or alkalines will eat into those bonds you mention, also why your bleach works, as sunlight does the same thing, breaks down normally one bond to make it appear invisible to our eyes by taking it out of the viewing spectrum, the stain is likely still there, ya just can't see it LOL, so yer I do agree those bonds can be broken, but can they also be created?..But lets say we added a pigment to say an water "bourne" paint as the thread is about AA and I dont call that waterbased personally. Ultimately within that emulsified water bourne paint you have you little pigment/binder, suspended in a little water that has been emulsified to sit in a little bubble of solvent (or the other way around, can never remember), add pigment to it, where wld it go, no doubt it wldnt find its way into those little bubbles of water withing the solvent so the solvent may eat it up, but does it destroy the pigment, render it invisable or dye the solvent? (Remember a bonding agent hasnt yet been added, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work), it likely will clump at the bottom but that depends on grind size and the viscosity of the suspending solution, it may fade off quickly as its not bonded to the next pigment (Unless you add a new bonding agent) or yes the solvent may eat it or the bonding agent up but, the bonding you mention is the bonding between the pigment and the binder to the next pigment so on so forth, so if its a minor solvent as used in most water "bourne" paints because that solvent is water soluable, that may not be strong enough to eat up the pigment created in a lab to handle such minor solvents, and you also add in a new bonding agent, whats the worse that can happen LOL..maybe a richer more vibrant layer of pigment, that will help that transparent appear more opaque but likely may wear out quickly in the sun or with bleach ;), but some of those loose pigments may be re-bonded chemically or physically through the atomization process as there is spare pigment floating around and spare bonding agent, they may just find each other and hook onto the matrix the paint will already create, maybe not, but that's the fun in finding out and then thinking why didn't that work or what can I do to make it work or shiz that worked awesome..:) LOL

But ya know I love stirring ya :)
 
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