What next for detail?

C

createinspain

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I really love working with basically water consistency mediums, no tip dry, easy to clean and liquid water colour or food colouring act in a way I am used to.

Now my current brush is the Iwata HPC Plus and I am very happy with it but the needle size at .3 is a tad large for doing really close up stuff without thickening the mix.

Am I right in thinking a smaller needle size would be more suited to fine detail? And if so, what would you recommend
(I'm thinking Christmas pressie here...:)

I know I could get a finer needle and stuff for the Iwata but it makes more sense to have it in another brush.
 
Depends on several things. Do you have any preference? Do you want something that's out of the box ready, or something you have to tune but can really do anything you want to with it? Do you want .2 mm setup or something even finer like a .1mm ?

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Out of the box ready definitely. The only tuning I need to be able to do is tweak paint flow with the end screw, like I do now. As for how fine, I'm not sure, I guess I'm wondering what fine art illustrators would use with liquid watercolours or ink. Maybe be able to adjust airflow at the brush, if that works well.
My preference is for a gravity feed, not a side or bottle feed one.
 
What you have is already capable of fine detail. I can get some great detail with my HP-CH. Paint is what makes all the difference.
Com-Art and ETAC require little reduction to get hairline detail, where Createx Illustration and Wicked require some more work to get the right ratio.
The Iwata Micron sprays nice, but I've found that using ETAC or Com-Art, I personally can get the same results without a $500 brush.
 
i only have 2 guns, 1 is a cheap pos that came with my compressor kit (prob chinese) and i use it to blast large areas with and a badger 100lg with the fine needle - which does very fine lines and is a very nice gun to work with (it makes the chinese one feel like a piece of junk - which it probably is :) ) , i picked the badger up on ebay used for £50 - i think the guy had only used it a few time as it was like new when i got it - tho i dont know if this was a good price or not for this model i'd certainly recommend it for fine work ( its certainly capable of doing work beyond my skill atm) .
 
Jeff - I'm aware that I could get fine detail with thicker paint - my point is that I don't want to use thicker paint unless I absolutely have to.

Pugster - If for example you were to shoot plain dyed water, could you get fine detail without making spiders with your badger? Because that is basically what I am shooting - no pigments in there it is dyes. And what needle set up does it have?
 
Thanks, I use a low pressure but not that low, I'll give it a go later!
 
Jeff - I'm aware that I could get fine detail with thicker paint - my point is that I don't want to use thicker paint unless I absolutely have to.

Pugster - If for example you were to shoot plain dyed water, could you get fine detail without making spiders with your badger? Because that is basically what I am shooting - no pigments in there it is dyes. And what needle set up does it have?

You should be able to spray real fine detail with inks and dyes, it comes down to PSI and trigger control.
Many time I reduce my paints 20:1 for real fine detail, which is probably just as thin or thinner than what you're using.
 
Jeff, my trigger control isn't too bad most of the time, (if I concentrate!) so I'll try taking the pressure down and see what happens. Course, I have no idea how accurate the gauge on the compressor is, that's beyond my techie knowledge!
 
Jeff, my trigger control isn't too bad most of the time, (if I concentrate!) so I'll try taking the pressure down and see what happens. Course, I have no idea how accurate the gauge on the compressor is, that's beyond my techie knowledge!
I would suggest and external PAC or MAC valve. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1406392557.640539.jpg
This is the Grex model. Actual psi setting is irrelevant. I always keep my compressor regulator at 50-60 psi and adjust everything at the airbrush with the PAC valve.
 
yeah the badger is fine with that, i use acrylic inks (daley/rowney) that are usually reduced to 60/40 at around 10-12 psi , im not sure of the needle size its what badger classes as 'fine' - i think its .25 , if you get spiders with inks just reduce the pressure.

*yup fine needle and head is .25
 
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Thanks all! I have done that and also got hubby to order a micro valve for me. Although my compressor is in the room with me, adjusting on that is a pain, literally - the screw gets hot! I think I have the detail I need now (see post 'another flower') the veining on there is pretty fine and that is with Vallejo liquid watercolour.

Not that I may not want another airbrush....lol this stuff is addictive and I do so love gadgets!
 
@createinspain, just watch for the quality of the valve you buy. The no-name from China is hit and miss. I had a few that lasted a few month and my new ones are only open or close, nothing inbetween. The Iwata ones are brilliant but they do not come with quick couplings. The Grex ones look nice and solid. The Sparmax ones with the black knob are also really good. Also pricey and they do not come with the male bit that attaches to the gun. I get mine from Airbrushes.com or Everything Airbrush, both in the UK.
 
I just want to put in my two penneth worth here. the actual air pressure is really irrelevant. I mean the actual number, I have a mack valve on the end of my hose and can turn the pressure right down or up just by turning the knob. (like in the picture above) befor I start to spray I do a few tester lines. If I get a spider I just turn it down until it stops but I really have no idea what the actual pressure is and to be honest, it doesn't matter because when the pressure is right for that particular paint it will probably have to be adjusted for the next mix or the next paint.
I think people are becoming obsessed with air pressures and dilution mixes. At the end of the day it's how you like your setup and the only way to work that out is by experimenting.
Of course other people can give you guidance and it's good that they do, but don't be afraid to push the boundaries and try things for you self. It's a voyage of discovery :)
 
I've got the Iwata one coming, figured if I was going to have one then it should at least be a decent one. I'm not fussed about the quick coupling since I don't have half a dozen brushes to connect and swap between, one piece of art, one brush!
As for pushing things, I always tend to be an original thinker... I use things for purposes they are not always intended for, look for ways round problems etc and for new ways of doing things!
 
I just want to put in my two penneth worth here. the actual air pressure is really irrelevant. I mean the actual number, I have a mack valve on the end of my hose and can turn the pressure right down or up just by turning the knob. (like in the picture above) befor I start to spray I do a few tester lines. If I get a spider I just turn it down until it stops but I really have no idea what the actual pressure is and to be honest, it doesn't matter because when the pressure is right for that particular paint it will probably have to be adjusted for the next mix or the next paint.
I think people are becoming obsessed with air pressures and dilution mixes. At the end of the day it's how you like your setup and the only way to work that out is by experimenting.
Of course other people can give you guidance and it's good that they do, but don't be afraid to push the boundaries and try things for you self. It's a voyage of discovery :)

100% well said Oddball. You fiddle with air and reducer untill it sprays right. Basic airbrush science, if it is too runny, drop pressure, if too thick, up the pressure.
 
It's like welding, there are rules but everyone has their own certain "mixture" they like. I do agree people get all tied up with wanting to know exact reductions and air pressure. It's nice, but changes daily for everyone. No 2 times am I exactly on the same dial number on compressor. Hell for fun sometimes I just set it randomly on something and mix my paint according to how it sounds. This challenges you to really understand your medium. The general rule is 25-35 psi for most work and drop down to 15 psi for high detail. A lot of us here will drop down to 5 or less. I work with a lot of kandy which is a dye, and I really push it's limit and it requires super low pressure when mixed really thin and the only way to keep it from spidering is trigger control.

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I had it all the way down to about 5 using the liquid water colour. What really helped was taking off the protective cap so I could get the needle close enough, the trigger control is not so much of a problem!
 
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